Not Wal-Mart and Never Want to Be
Friday, August 31, 2007  by Ray Alexander
Category: , ,

Many questions have been raised recently about the price of Quixtar’s products. Specifically, some have wondered how Quixtar Independent Business Owners can possibly compete with the Wal-Marts and Costcos of the world, given the premium price of many of our exclusive products.

I think it’s important to understand that many of our brands, especially ARTISTRY® skin care and cosmetics and NUTRILITE® vitamins and supplements, are high-quality products intended to compete in the marketplace on the value and performance they provide – not on the basis of being the cheapest moisturizer or multivitamin you can find. In other words. People pay more for a Volvo than a Volkswagen because they view Volvo as providing more value. The same applies to our exclusive brands like ARTISTRY and NUTRILITE.  These and other Quixtar brands are premium priced and designed for a specific target market seeking prestige, quality and performance.

Price comparisons on our products should take into consideration that Quixtar's exclusive brands are:
• supported by world-class research and development
• contain the highest- quality ingredients, and often feature attributes not available in other products
• backed by the latest technology, a state-of-the-art distribution system, and more than 600 worldwide patents
• sustained by seven manufacturing facilities and five distribution centers

You won’t find value propositions like these on the shelves of your corner discount store:

• NUTRILITE products are the world's leading brand of vitamins, minerals, and dietary supplements.* With total quality control of its plant concentrates from seed to tablet, NUTRILITE is the only global vitamin and mineral brand to grow, harvest, and process plants on its own certified organic farms.** NUTRILITE supplements often deliver more key phytonutrients per serving than the competition.

• The ARTISTRY brand's high-quality formulas, elegant packaging, and technologically advanced product innovation have placed ARTISTRY among the world's top five largest-selling prestige brands of facial skin care and colour cosmetics.*** It's priced competitively with others in this distinguished group, which includes well-known brands like Clinique®, Lancôme®, Estée Lauder®, and Chanel®.

• Home brands like L.O.C.® Multi-Purpose Cleaner and the SA8® laundry system are often priced lower than the competition on a cost-per-use basis. When comparing apples to apples, home products meet or beat the competition on product performance, cost, or both.

• XS™ Power Nutrition products include sports drinks, protein shakes, energy bars and energy drinks that have all of the “energy,” and none of the sugar of other energy drinks. XS products are priced very competitively with many other sports nutrition brands.

• The ATMOSPHERE™ Air Purifier, as seen by the 44 million viewers of ABC’s hit TV Show “Extreme Makeover Home Edition,” purifies with advanced technology that automatically monitors the quality of the air in your home - effectively removing up to 99.99% of the contaminant and pollutant particles that are drawn through the system, down to sizes as small as .01 microns.

• The eSpring® Water Purifier effectively removes greater than 140 health-effect contaminants and destroys more than 99.95% of bacteria, viruses and cysts with a patented dual technology filter cartridge. It is more cost effective over time and consistently outperforms bottled water, pitcher filters and faucet filters.

These products not only deliver unsurpassed performance and value, they come with the personalized attention, product knowledge, and customer service provided by Quixtar IBOs. Those who argue that we must compete on product price alone are completely ignoring the value that IBOs bring to the sale. IBOs are knowledgeable product experts who work by a customer’s side to make recommendations based on needs, explain features and benefits, answer questions, or help check out. This level of service is not to be found at the big box discount store, but is part of what Quixtar customers pay for when they choose one of our products over one that they could buy cheaper from a store shelf.

Thanks to the value provided by our products and by the IBOs who sell them, Quixtar is the leading online retailer of health and beauty products, according to Internet Retailer magazine* for the fourth consecutive year. That means we sell more health and beauty products online than Avon, Sephora, Clinique and anyone else.

We stand behind the quality of all our products and guarantee customer satisfaction. If for any reason a customer tries a product and is not completely satisfied, they can return it within 180 days of purchase for an exchange or refund of the product price and applicable tax.

Ultimately, the market decides the value of the products sold by any given company. Quixtar's product pricing reflects the high esteem with which our products are held.


*Based on 2006 sales. **Based on a survey of global vitamin and dietary supplement brands conducted by Euromonitor International. ***Based on a 2006 Euromonitor Consultancy study of global retail sales.

Editor's Note: Many commentators appear to be focused on Wal-Mart in their comments to this post but please understand that it is not Quixtar's intention to disparage Wal-Mart. In fact, we respect their obviously successful business model. It's just not our business and it never will be. That is the point of this post.


Comments

Joe said:
August 31, 2007 10:25 AM | #

That was like a breath of fresh air.  Thank you for telling it like it is. :-)

jmoses said:
August 31, 2007 10:54 AM | #

Amen!

I spend lots of time at TEAMs freetheibo website where they talk about Walmart...

I don't think TEAM does product education at all.

Go to Walmart and buy cheap crap on sale.  Have fun.  Just don't go there after 10pm at night.... it looks like a scene from "Night of the Living Dead" with zombies.  I don't go to Walmart - i don't like demons and don't like a spirit of poverty.

Quixtar is trend-setter.  I am a certified personal trainer.

Quixtar came out with protein bars in 2001 when i became an ibo.  They were the FIRST to sweeten their products with sucralose... the other people still used aspartame.  Now everyone (ex: EAS) has switched from aspartame to to sucralose.

I have espring and it rocks... uv light system.  Top Quality.

XS blows away the other loser drinks with sugar, aspartame, and no variety of tasty flavors.

My mom raves about the cleaning products like SA8 and LOC.  Also i love the partner stores.... I got to FranklinCovey to get my planner... i get discount lower than nonIBOS and then i get lots of pv.  

IBO Life ROCKS!!!!

Thanks Quixtar/Amway... i sense you are really letting us know how PROUD you are of who we are.

don't worry about your "trash talking" blogs of late.  We are in the middle of a Business Transformation.  Its ok to show a little attitude.  I am glad I am not in business with Corporate Wimps.

Go TEAM GO!  (Orrin, Chris, Ron...     TEAM ibos - you rock, STAY team STAY!!!)

Editor's Note: Please understand that we do not intend to disparage Wal-Mart. We actually respect their obviously successful business model. It's just not our business model and it never will be. That's the point we're trying to make here.

jmoses said:
August 31, 2007 10:57 AM | #

Yes - try buying [edit: products] in a box at Walmart.... and in 4 months... after using it and not liking it... try to return it!

Quixtar customer service at 800-253-6500 is amazing.  I was born in Michigan and lived there until age seven...   Quixtar employees make me proud of the State of Michigan.

Listen Up -  "Every seed of adversity carries with it a seed of equivalent or greater benefit"

All this TEAM junk of late...... is going to be fuel and motivation ...   we are going to make the Corporationa and IBO Field... better than ever!

Tex said:
August 31, 2007 11:02 AM | #

Whoosh! That was the sound of the wind being knocked out of the sails of the lawyer representing Orrin and Co.  I don't think much of this was new information either. It largely came off the existing Quixtar/Amway website, right?

As I said in another thread (the nice, second version, that was posted):

Orrin "Rosie Ruiz" Woodward - Give it up.

jmoses said:
August 31, 2007 11:04 AM | #

Plus....  with shop.com and partner stores.... we have every single product Walmart has!  Ha!

How many MOMS and DADS has Walmart allowed to quit their jobs and stay home with their kids?

Walmart is cool!  I would be FIRED UP if my last name was Walton but its not!

I would rather be a PRO-SUMER and put my money into my own business/distributorship.

I would rather the profits from the money i spend on consumables go to the people i know, care about, and the people who have served me.  Founders and employees of Amway, my uplines all of them, and ME.

Thank you very much!

tommy tucker said:
August 31, 2007 11:13 AM | #

Dream Biz "you can take advantage of change or change can take advantage of you."

It is evident we are in changing times which is simply opurtunity in its finest moment.

I'm sure Sam Walton had Ben Franklin and the BigK say something similar when he approched them about some needed changes.

Sam we are not "Walmart" we are K-mart and this is the way we do buisness so go back to your Ben franklin stores.

That is not exactly what Sam did.  He took a stance and put everything on the line to cut out the unnessisary steps to build an empire.  Taking avdvantage of change.

BigK had the suppiers the networks the years of buisness all in there favor.  One thing they did not have is the open mind to hear and understand tha change was upon them.

That same song and dance everyone has known to be true but very few people have the vision to see when it is actually happening.  I beleive change is upon us once more.

Do you want to be right or wealthy..........some will be both.

A Kline said:
August 31, 2007 11:19 AM | #

I think you've explained the problem very well. I don't think anyone who knows the A/Q biz want to "compete" with Walmart's prices, I think we want to be able to tell customers and new IBO's, with confidence, that the products are worth every penny (at the same time, I'm sure you could manufacture toothpaste that really is worth a thousand dollars a tube...but who's going to buy it?).

I say you pointed the problem out very well for two reasons.

1. When you were siting reasons why the products our not over-priced by saying you should take into account things like:

"• backed by the latest technology, a state-of-the-art distribution system, and more than 600 worldwide patents

• sustained by seven manufacturing facilities and five distribution centers".

When do you go to the store, see a very expensive product, and say to yourself, "It's expensive, but hey...they have a state-of-the-art distribution system, 600 world-wide patents, and seven manufacturing facilities...so, I guess it's worth it."

No!...you don't care about that...you care about the price of the product you are paying for.

For you to include that as reasons for a price difference does not make sense. It does make sense if we were talking about the business to a prospective IBO, but isn't that the problem, that you've put out products for committed IBO's, not customers?

2. Okay, we've sited all the research, development, and scientists (world-class, in fact), but at the same time, one of the most successful products available from Q right now is XS... how much involvement did this r&d have in XS (since they were/are an outside vendor)?

If you say, our world-class expensive r&d were not that involved...doesn't the success of that competitive priced (w/ out having to explain for 30 minutes) product make sense....that maybe the high price of in-house r&d isn't as important?

If you say, our world-class expensive r&d were very involved in XS...then how are you able to get it at such a quality price?

Also, your telling us you're going to put out some more "retail able" products and we are starting to see a move in that direction...why continue to try and "save-face"?

I appreciate Q, the founders, and all the employees (shout out to Dan A!), but this just seems like spin to me?

Nick said:
August 31, 2007 11:32 AM | #

I'm a new IBO with only a couple of retail sales.  I've been trying to find price comparison data and find it very frustrating.  The anti-Quixtar/Amway crowd seems very biased.  There doesn't seem to be data (that I've found) from Quixtar.  What comparisons there are is from catalogs -- certainly spun to the needs of Quixtar/IBOs.  If catalogs don't have a comparison on a product, it makes you wonder why.

What products do you compare against?

What prices do you use to compare against?

What are the actual results of your comparisons?

I do not want to be a Wal-Mart.  I want to offer products with goodvalue/cost.  In cases where we are priced lower than others in the marketplace, then that is a bonus.  If price is slightly above competitive products, ok.  If price is way more than the competition, then what is justification for the price?

No doubt that lots of these questions will be answered in blogs, QU, and the like.  I suppose that I'm expressing frustration and concerns I have.  If a prospective customer has a concern, then I should feel that I'm reasonably able to answer the concern.  Especially when price comparisons (valid or not) are all over the internet.

Chad said:
August 31, 2007 11:44 AM | #

Ray and Joe,

I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think there are some areas/brands or better yet some of the subcategories that we do carry that I do wonder about from time to time as I'm sure other IBOs do. For instance items like Diapers, the Glister Toothpaste, the Body Series deodorant, and other subcategory items. Although we use these products, they are sometimes slightly higher in price without a really good story to bring them value such as some of our big heavyweight powerbrands like SA8 Detergent and Double X. Two of the areas that do concern me pricewise are the trash bags and paper products which I'm not sure are very competitive from a customer or IBO perspective. Trash bags and paper products could be priced more competitively.

Ray, one question I do have is the word of course has been spreading via the organizations from the corporation regarding lower pricing on certain products/lines, almost like walmart-pricing coming in Sept and Nov (I think I saw it on some of the other Opportunity Zone Blog author sites). How true is that and what areas/product lines will be affected if you can speak to it? Thanks.

johnnymosesthompson said:
August 31, 2007 12:02 PM | #

jthompson is same person as johnny moses thompson or jmoses.

Please post my comments - they are rather good.

Or change them all to the same name.  

i am retiring from blogging very soon.

Editor's Note: Johnny, I see that you are one guy, one email, multiple user names. Just pick one name in the future and stick with it, please, to eliminate confusion. We'll post anything and everything from you that complies with our comments policy. Thanks!

MP Zildjian said:
August 31, 2007 12:09 PM | #

You're right Alitcor.. we should all be proud. Lets not forget these wonderful elements either.. wouldn't want to sell ourselves short..

-3.4%

-Jay Factor

-Sep 12

-Powerless IBOAI board

-Alticor handling the training system

-Lawyers at the helm

-And of course our new, well known, worldwide,   respected name that is going to carry us all to our goals and dreams.

The future looks so bright.. thanks again.

JIM MILLER said:
August 31, 2007 12:22 PM | #

NO ONE QUESTIONS HOW GOOD THE PRODUCTS ARE . THEY ARE GREAT , FOR PERSONAL IBO USE . AS FOR FIRST CIRCLE TRANSFORMATION , NOT SO MUCH .

STILL PRICED TO HIGH FOR MORE THAN A SMALL % OF THE US MARKET TO KEEP BUYING OVER A LONG PEROID OF TIME .

THATS WHY YOU HAVE MORE PV AT SIGN UP  , FOR PROMOTIONS, AND FROM FREINDS / RELATIVES THAT BUY FOR A WHILE FROM NEW IBOS . LONG TERM THE PRICE WAR WINS OUT.

LONG TERM CONSUMERS WILL BUY A BETTER PRICED ITEM EVEN IF IT ISN'T AS GOOD AS THE ONE DOWN THE STREET.

MCDONALDS VS. MOST ANY GOOD FOOD ?

Shannon in California said:
August 31, 2007 12:30 PM | #

I'd be curious to ask, how much of these quality products are sold at the published retail cost vs. wholesale? If an IBO has to sell these great quality items at wholesale cost to actually sell the product, then this negates the whole "value vs. cost" issue. Why even have a "retail cost"? Also, what about the other items that aren't the sweet 16 products, like tee pee, diapers, and other commodities? You believe those are priced well? And, interestingly enough, many of these items that are labeled as "quality" are distributed under the same name, just repackaged with your label and can be found as the cheap stuff at Costco. I've found that especially with the diapers, and with the formula! Very upsetting considering the lousey PV/BV ratio! It's not the top quality you brag about at all! Ok, so for the sweet 16 products, I'd agree, there's quality there and I think it's good stuff... but if no-one is paying RETAIL for the product, then it's NOT PRICED WELL!

ibofightback said:
August 31, 2007 12:46 PM | #

Great post, but I'd disagree with one thing you said Ray -

IBOs are knowledgeable product experts

It would appear from reading comments from TEAM IBOs that many are *not* at all knowledgeable in this area. Without that knowledge, it would indeed be very difficult to retail the products. We run seminars on Nutrilite, Artistry, and eSpring to educate IBOs and customers about their benefits. Can TEAM IBOs let us know what product training TEAM was supplying?

I'm not interested in the cheapest products, I want the best, at the best value.

Chad said:
August 31, 2007 1:19 PM | #

Shannon,

Just as an FYI, we've found the diapers and wipes through Quixtar to work just as good as anything else on the market. Although the price seems out of whack, we sell the diapers/wipes at retail because we promote the Ditto Delivery aspect of it so that busy moms won't wake up sleepy dads in the middle of the night to run to Walmart because they ran out-LOL! So from that value added piece of Ditto, it all works to the good and probably could be used as the missing factor for value added for products such as these. But what I absolutely can't justify to customers are the trash bags and paper goods-I don't think one could add enough value Ditto-wise or anything else to justify those prices. I agree with ibofightback, I don't want the cheapest, but I do want something that has the best value added which allows me to somewhat compete in the marketplace.

Just as side note to all on this blog-I think we should leave the TEAM aspect out of this particular blog as its being discussed in many other blogs that are specific to that topic. Outside of what I see in the What's New section of Quixtar and these blogs, I have no attachment to the TEAM organization/affiliation so speaking for myself I have nothing negative at all to talk against or to the TEAM folks. Basically I'm keeping my nose out of that discussion-LOL!

LM said:
August 31, 2007 1:21 PM | #

I'm all for keeping our prices competitive. That said, If the trends were toward cheaper and price were the only reason people buy , why are Fudruckers and Red Robin opening new locations like mad with lines standing out the door. Certainly no one could sell $7.00 cheeseburgers. I'd sooner promote a quality product and explain the reason for a higher price, than sell price and appologize for poor quality later.

rdknyvr said:
August 31, 2007 1:23 PM | #

Ray, there is some interesting overlap between your post and the most recent posts from Susan and Beth on catalogs and selling tools for Health and Beauty product pathways.

In accordance with IBOFB's insight above, perhaps more in-depth product training could be offered through Quixtar U, and the catalogs re-sized and focused more for Customers... although one should remember that IBOs are also customers too, as well as business people, and some of our product education does come by necessity through the catalogs

MichMan said:
August 31, 2007 1:31 PM | #

ibofightback, if the corp is going to help people retail, they will have to help them explain why their "Cadillac" brand of hair gel, toothpaste, coffee, toilet paper or shampoo is SIX TIMES HIGHER than similiar products they can get at the grocery store.

Amway should survey their own employees to see what their tolerance level is for "Cadillac" consumables.  

I would bet that most employees would not buy ANY of the products if it weren't for the 75 percent savings at Amway Employee Discount Store across the street from the corp headquarters.

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 1:34 PM | #

Right On Ray!!!

And you didn't even mention all the professionals like yourself working behind the scenes to make sure EVERYTHING works the way it was intended.  I have an "overpriced" CMS1000 suck bucket (vacuum) that is still marvelous.  I can still get parts, belts, filters, and upgrades to ClearTrac if I want, after over 20 years.

Thank you so much for addressing the pricing issues.  I have been reading all these pricing complaints on the blogs and have almost blown an aneurism.  

Who in their right mind would want to own a  business that sells products to compete with WalMart, Kmart fall apart, Target or the others?  

This business has ALWAYS been a cut above the rest and I appreciate all the efforts the corporation puts forth to keep it that way.  

We IBO's need to become educated enough to do a good demonstration explaining the points you made and stand up for the quality and performance of the product.  Price is always about five levels DOWN in what the customer is looking for when considering a product purchase, whatever it is.  If we get a customer that is concerned with ONLY the price, they just need to be educated on the features and benefits of our product and they can clearly see why the price is what it is, and we back that up with the satisfaction guarantee. (And the guarantee costs the IBO Nothing)

Quixtar/Amway have always dealt with this in a very professional way.  First, buy the product and use it yourself.  Your upline will be glad to teach you about the features and benefits of all the products or put you in touch with some who can do this.  When you are convinced with the facts, you are ready to go face to face with a real customer.

Imagine how long we would last in a Porche dealership with a Chevrolet mentality.  Yet, for some reason when we sign up as an IBO we expect everything to be cheap.  Where does this misinformation come from?

The day the corporation rolls over and starts marketing cheap products, this opportunity will cease to be the BEST OPPORTUNITY IN THE WORLD!!!  

Nick said:
August 31, 2007 2:20 PM | #

Back to pricing concerns for products (data, justifications, etc):

"We stand behind the quality of all our products and guarantee customer satisfaction. If for any reason a customer tries a product and is not completely satisfied, they can return it within 180 days of purchase for an exchange or refund of the product price and applicable tax."

This is not a reason to buy - it's a reason why a customer should feel good about doing business with me.

"Ultimately, the market decides the value of the products sold by any given company."

This is exactly why we (as IBOs) need price comparison/justification data.  People buy based on this information - not the 100% money-back guarantee.

Please understand, I signed up in TEAM.  Almost everything that I saw in their promotional/motivational material and what I was told by my sponsor I totally disagree with.  I'm cautiously encouraged by the steps Quixtar/Amway is taking.  It is why I'm still around and actively participating in this discussion.

"Quixtar's product pricing reflects the high esteem with which our products are held."

Who has been esteeming our products in the past 10-20 years?   Has it been retail customers who purchase at retail price?  I would wager that because of tool business abuses, the only people who have been using our products have been IBOs ("buy from your own store and tell others how they can, too").

Quixtar, please be transparent with cost comparisons with us IBOs.  That includes the very good, the good, the bad, and the ugly.  Please don't spin data that doesn't look so great.  We can handle the results.  We can try to particpate in making Quixtar better in the marketplace so we don't have to wrap our "sales" as "business opportunities".  We can't help when we don't have data. We lose confidence when we feel that Quixtar is spinning results.

Again, this is a request for improvement, not a reason to quit or find better opportunity.  There probably are very few, if any, better MLM opportunities - provided we sell marketable products at marketable prices to the market - not other IBOs.

soontobewoodwardibo said:
August 31, 2007 2:30 PM | #

Comments policy: Please note that comments are moderated .  We reserve the right to remove without warning any and all offensive, unlawful, defamatory, or libelous comments, as well as any personal attacks or offensive language.

my question to the comment policy:  No matter what side you are on, How and why do you let Tex and others "offensive, unlawful, defamatory, or libelous comments, as well as any personal attacks or offensive language."

Those are your words "Comment Policy" not mine.  So please tell me where you draw the line.  As tex's comments about Orrin wooward may fit within that

tex---t

Editor's Note: Moderating comments is certainly more of an art than a science and we strive to enforce our comments policy as consistently as possible. I'm not aware of the specifc comment to which you're referring in which you believe a line has been crossed.

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 2:36 PM | #

A Kline,

Talk about spin!!  Ray didn't even mention X/S for a very good reason......as you mentioned X/S is not an Amway/Quixtar manufactured product and of course would not apply to his examples.  But, it does have something to do with fulfillment, inventory, distribution, quality control.  Do you want something for nothing?  It would seem so.

When you compare NON-A/Q manufactured products to A/Q manufactured products you are comparing apples to oranges.  

I can appreciate the fact that most IBO's are not business owners and don't have business experience.  So, the only basis they have for what things cost is WalMart, Kmart, Costco, Sams, etc.  But, you will not find ANY of our CORE products for sale in ANY of these stores.  So, what do we do in an effort to compare prices?  We go to toilet paper, diapers, paper goods, etc.  NEWS FLASH!! A/Q does not manufacture these paper goods!  They do however inventory these items FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE should you want to buy them.  Does EVERYTHING have to be cheaper?  That is unrealistic and irrelevant.

Do we figure the true cost of products from WalMart, etc?  Time, gas, wear and tear, insurance, parking lots in the rain and snow, walking to and from the car(that is a good thing) vs. point & click.

I promise that Q/A tracks returns.  Did you know that you are not "satisfied" if YOU feel the price was too high, after having used the product.  Send it back at "their expense!"  Game over!!

Also, there is a big difference in a person going to the store and "thinking about what is behind the cost of an expensive product" and an IBO sitting at the kitchen table, demonstrating the quality and performance of the product from his/her business.  Again, YOU spin!

Spend some time actually writing down ALL the things we get FOR FREE in this business, compared to any other MLM or conventional business, especially.  THEN maybe you will get excited about the company you are involved with.

Keep the Faith

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 2:38 PM | #

Jim Miller,

Please help me clear the fog.  What process do you follow in determining what the price of a product should be?  

kjteam said:
August 31, 2007 2:45 PM | #

Ray Alexander, your  an overpaid  spin doctor!!!

spin, spin, spin, spin,spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin,

Just go ahead and  post the core line catalog product prices on here and let people choose for themselves.

"We run seminars on Nutrilite, Artistry, and eSpring to educate IBOs and customers about their benefits.

 Yea, I've been to some of those.  Got plenty of sleep in my chair during thoses sessions.  

For the real truth, including a blog on product comparrison go to freethibo.com

tman said:
August 31, 2007 3:04 PM | #

I have been in sales for 14 years. Both as a part of this business and my day job. One thing is for sure. You will never be the cheapest on everything. PERIOD. I have a $1000.00 for anyone that can prove that Walmart is 100% cheaper on everything in the store.

I have 2 Walmarts within about 3miles of my house and yes I have done some informal price comparisons. Just recently we priced out a couple products at Walmart that weren't even priced the same in each store. So let's get over this we have to be cheaper than Walmart stuff. And just because it is cheaper doesn't necessarily mean it is better.

Here's a good example... A couple of months ago I had an ant problem outside of my house. I went to the local Home Improvement Store and the sales person recommended a product. I chose instead to take an "equivilent product" at a lesser cost. Man I saved almost $7.  2 weeks later I still had the ant problem. So I went back and bought the product that the sales person recommended in the first place and guess what within a week the ant problem was gone. So was the cheaper brand really cheaper? It doesn't take rocket science to figure that one out.

Here is another one from the business. I had a client who was buying XS from me at full retail. She just told me today that she had been buying from another IBO at the IBO Cost and asked me if I would sell it to her at the IBO Cost. I said no. The reason is I always deliver it when you call. Usually the same day. I always break up cases for you 4 Grape 4 Root Beer 4 Citrus etc. At some point my time has to be worth soemthing. If you would like to become an IBO then certainly you would have the same opportunity that I have to purchase at the IBO Cost and better than that I can show you how to build a business that would give you some options outside of what you are doing here (She happens to cut my hair) Unfortunatley she did not take me up on the IBO part but she said "you know, you are right. The person I was ordering from before would never break up the cases and it would take her a couple of weeks soemtimes to get what I want."

It's called delivering value. That's why I love this business. We are defining the market place with Value. We are not a copycat , we sell the same thing only cheaper discount buying club. This is a business. This is a business that has products that are the leaders in their respective exclusive categories. It amazes me that after the 4 or 5 years that we have had XS that still no one in the beverage industry has been able to duplicate a sugar free, energy drink that actually tastes good. It amazes me that Double X has been on the market for 70+ years and no one has been able to duplicate it and sell it cheaper.

My question to all the Walmart wanna be's is this. Are you in business or just doing something on the side? It is okay to be just doing something on the side just understand that this business will cost you money if you are treating it as a hobby. If you want to treat this as a business then learn to differentiate yourself from the competition. That is what we get paid for. To differentiate and add value to the customer. Whether that "customer" is a retail customer or a new IBO.

Jeffrey said:
August 31, 2007 3:10 PM | #

BRAVO! I have always said in my presentations that the products we have are a higher quality than what you can find at the store.

I will admit that some are priced quite a bit higher than store brands with little difference in performance, like the bowl cleaner, but I use it anyway, even in my janitorial business. Would a customer buy it? Yes, if we can get brand loyalty from good experiences they get from other quality products, like the SA8 and LOC., and the convenience of having it delivered right to their home, whether ordered from the web or the IBO right along with their other consumables.

Nick: The products I use in my cost comparisons are: XS Energy Drink vs. Red Bull (same price), Glister Oral Rinse vs. Scope (number of uses and cost for total uses), SA8 Bioquest vs. Tide H.E., All Fabric Bleach vs. Clorox 2, Meadowbrook Hand Sanitizer vs. Purell, Body Series Roll-On vs. Ban (per ounce), and a selection of FormuCare products vs. national brands. We even beat some OTC prices at Wal-Mart, but as I have said before, if they catch you doing price comparisons, they'll throw you out or have you arrested for criminal tresspass.

All I can say about Wal-Mart is that when I was there the other day at 4:30 in the morning, only two words come to mind: creepy and disgusting. The employees looked disgusting and the customers looked creepy. I don't even like the atmosphere in there, like I'm always being watched, and I probably am. For anybody that wants to compete with Wal-Mart, go for it. This is just the wrong business to do it with.

George said:
August 31, 2007 3:57 PM | #

I'd have to agree with some of the comments above... the products are very good in quality, thus the higher price, but there is a whole market of people that are more interested in price vs. quality.  That is why people continue to shop at places like Wal-Mart.  Our society is plagued with the "save, save, save" mentality.  Why do so many people choose to buy Suave shampoo at Wal-Mart vs. Redken at the salon?  Why do they buy cheap cosmetics at a discount store vs. by Clinique or Estee Lauder?  Why do they buy the local grocery store brand soup vs. Campbell's soup?  They are looking at the price and are willing to give up some quality to get that cheap price.

The premium brands offered through Quixtar are no doubt awesome brands.  The problem is that most people won't go and pay $70/ month for double X or $140 for a couple at retail prices.  Typically you have to forgo your retail profit if you want to keep long term business.  Let's face it, customers have no incentive with the compensation plan, so their only other value is price.  It would be interesting to see what makes Quixtar the leading on-line retailer of health and beauty products... are the majority of those sales to IBOs?  Are the majority of the customer sales done at retail or wholesale cost?  If you answer those questions, I think you will find the answer that customers don't want to buy at high costs, even if it is a superior product, and we need to have some products that compete in that arena or we won't ever capture the bulk of the market share.

I've always been taught that you should market to the masses vs. market to the classes.  When you market to the masses (people that are already broke and very price conscious) you have a larger sector.  When you market to the classes (the people with more cash flow to spend on premium products) you shoot yourself in the foot.

A Kline said:
August 31, 2007 4:11 PM | #

Beryl:

Another great point. You said:

"Do we figure the true cost of products from WalMart, etc?  Time, gas, wear and tear, insurance, parking lots in the rain and snow, walking to and from the car(that is a good thing) vs. point & click."

Another great example of spin (this one though I have not heard from the corp)! No we don't figure those costs into the price...that's called "shipping & handling".

I am excited about our A/Q business. I've been blessed to benefit from millions (and million and millions) of A/Q money. I'm just telling my story...since the corp is gracious enough to ask.

Nick said:
August 31, 2007 4:31 PM | #

Jeffrey,

Thanks for talking about how you did price comparison.  The purpose of my comments is NOT to justify cost over Wal-Mart.  It is to learn how Q/A does comparisons and to learn why they price items the way they do.

Who do they compare against?  Why did Q/A choose those products to compare against?  What makes our products comparable to theirs?  If the results are that we are WAY higher than the products that Q/A itself decided we should be compared to, what is the justification for the WAY higher price?

My concern is not about how "high" our prices are but about how "appropriate" our prices are.

Data first, justification second.  I don't have much experience selling (1 yr personal sales) and less experience selling Q/A products (2 sales) but it seems that knowing your products and how they fit into the existing market place is very useful information.  Q/A's cost comparisons aren't the end-all, be-all in the sense that every buyer is different and every location has different prices, but it sure helps to know how Q/A itself feels that it fits into the market place.

If Q/A doesn't provide data about who they compare prices against and what the results are, then I run the risk of making an incorrect comparison when I go to the local supermarket.  If I know what products Q/A compares against, the results, and Q/A's interpretation of the results, then I know how to respond to people correctly and appropriately.  

Rykel said:
August 31, 2007 4:35 PM | #

People, In the midst of this pricing debate, you would not believe what a Singaporean company has done...

"Purchase $5500 of my products/services and I will pay you money for the next 18 months or more until you have earned a profit or received back your full purchase cost - no MLM, no nothing. Oh, we pay you more than $900 per referral too and throw in a MLM Plan as a bonus."

I spoke to Amway management here earlier and told them that if some of the companies followed suit, very soon we would all have a "pricing" war like we have never seen before... and how do you compete against free products?

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 4:45 PM | #

Tman...Right On....Now that is experience talking!  You have to determine how cheap you are willing to sell YOURSELF!

If you go into ANY sales position with price the main issue, YOU LOSE.  The price issue is between your own ears.  Until you fix it, you will always be frustrated in sales.  There are plenty of people who teach it, but the best way is speak from your heart about what you know to be true, from personal use.  Don't listen to the "Coward Within".  When someone says "how much is it?"  Simply set it aside until you go over the features and benefits.  The customer always wants to appear intelligent, you know.

Keep the Faith

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 4:59 PM | #

kjteam,

Thanks for being honest that you slept through most of the seminars on the products.  If I had said that you would have probably taken offense.  But, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear what you are saying.  Your purpose is to create hate and discontent and I feel everyone here realizes that from your posts.

Bye the way, how much does Ray make?  I might want to take a job some day.

Shannon in California said:
August 31, 2007 5:33 PM | #

Chad, You are right, the convenience of Ditto is nice, but Quixtar doesn't corner the market as far as delivering to your door is concerned. I can have diapers and wipes delivered at my door from 1-800-diapers or Amazon and they have a subscription service too. And the diapers and wipes from the business do the job but now I get them elsewhere cheaper. My point was that Quixtar touts "quality" like a badge of honor, but I was very upset when I found out, for example, the formula wasn't the "quality" they profess. My son was allergic to the business formula, and when trying other formulas, I tried the no-brand formula from Costco, and found it to be the same manufacturer as Quixtar uses (cause it made him sick also). But it cost me $20 less than the same amount of formula from Quixtar (go look in your catalog). When a baby drinks 6-8 bottles a day, this can become expensive very fast. The business formula is actually more expensive than Similac, which is what ended up working.

My complaint is the cost! It's so overpriced to me, that I'd rather drive, or go online elsewhere, forgo the extra tiny PV I'd receive and get the same stuff cheaper. And you agree with me for about the tee-pee, paper towels, cups, food items, etc. It's a rip-off folks! There's a reason why you and I have 0 pv people in our groups! The reason is, we are driven by the "price" period. Whether Quixtar realizes it or not, American's have made Wal-Mart the #1 company in the world because it's cheaper. That obviously means something to the average public. And when I'm charged more for the same stuff that I'm told is quality, I'm maddened. So, my take is Alticor wants its outrageous "jay-factor" profit MORE than it wants to be competitive. What's wrong with wanting cheaper prices? It's wrong when it cuts into their precious 35%.

ibofightback said:
August 31, 2007 5:39 PM | #

MichMan - re "cadillac" products if I think a product is poor value, i don't buy it or promote it, simple as that. If catalogue products don't sell, the corp. either removes them or looks at adjusting the pricing. An overly obsessive "support your own store" type of thing is poor thinking and corrupt economics.

Nick - I always do my own price comparisons for my area and provide them for my group. I encourage them to do their own comparisons as well. If something is substantial uncompetitive, and there's no quality differential, well, as I said, I don't buy it and I don't promote it. And I let the corp. know about it too.

tman - great comments on adding value

kjteam - those "freetheibo" price comparisons wouldn't be on that thread that quotes an Aquasana hosted website saying Aquasana is better value then eSpring would they? And that thread wouldn't be hosted on a website managed by a PR company hired by TEAM to disparage Quixtar would it?

Yeah, that'd be independent figures. Do what I do. Learn about the products, then go do your own price comparisons.

ibofightback said:
August 31, 2007 6:26 PM | #

Shannon, assuming the "jay-factor" claims are correct, I'm pretty certain it wouldn't apply to catalogue products made by other manufacturers

m kay said:
August 31, 2007 7:15 PM | #

That was a nice realease from the corp. No they are right they are not Walmart... Yet. However this will not be fact for too much longer. The reason that Quixtar is changing the name back to Amway is as they claim, because the name outside  of North America is widely known. But that is not the entire story. What they are leaving out is their plan to go retail outside of North America in Walmart. This way they can test the market with core products at a reasonable price. In the mean time the corp will make it vertually impossible to build a business in North America by not lowering the prices and putting more and more restrictions on IBO's thus forcing the IBO's to quit. This will not happen over night but over the next eighteen months like they said from the start. It's just interesting how they left the most important part out... the part about eventually going retail in North America. Is as i'm sure is hard to imagine but let me reasure you it is in fact not only true but is already a done deal or at least close to it. Perhaps some one should ask the corp about it.

Ros said:
August 31, 2007 7:32 PM | #

Great discussion!

Product pricing is only a concern ... if you allow it to be one.

While most people will say they are very price conscious, there are many examples where each of us have purchased a product or service which we knew was priced higher then a competitive one.

Why would we do that?  Perhaps we saw more value it in, or maybe it filled another need.

Here are 3 examples:

1. Some people choose to buy a more expensive brand of gas because they believe the special additives are worth it.  (My girlfriend insists that a certain brand is better because her mechanic, who works at the service station, says it is.)  I’ve not noticed any difference in performance or mileage to say ya or nay.

2. I have several clients in my other business (consulting) where they have tried using less expensive refurbished printer cartridges instead of the higher quality, higher priced brand name cartridges.

In every case, they all threw them out (no satisfaction guarantee) and purchased the better quality, but more expensive print cartridges, which do carry a 30-day satisfaction guarantee.  (Yes I do know one person (not a client) who says she still uses the refurbished cartridges, but she says she's ok with the lower quality).

Another example with our products:

3. I have several customers who have been buying SA8 (and many other products) at full retail from me for many years.

While demonstrating the superior performance of SA8, I would explain all the unique features; concentration, a light pleasant fragrance, excellent cleaning power yet mild to delicate clothing, non-spill square box.  I would then explain how each feature would benefit them – and then I would show them the following demonstration.

- 6 baby food jars filled 3/4 with water.

- In each jar had a piece of steel wool.  (I've seen other IBOs use small nuts and bolts instead of steel wool).

- In each jar was added a tablespoon of different competing brand of laundry detergent.  (SA8, Tide, Gain, Bold, Ivory and All).

After some time (I think weeks), in each of the jars, the steel wool would rust and as in the case of Ivory – over time it completely disintegrated!

The jar with the SA8?  The steel wool never rusted, even after years of being exposed to the water.  It was still like brand new!

Note:  I NEVER say any disparaging remarks about the competitive brands, I just show the demonstration and let my customer come to their own conclusion.

What did this demonstrate?  In addition to cleaning clothes, SA8 will protect the metal parts on your clothes, your zipper etc… and it will protect your washer, giving it years of extra life – and saving you costly repair bills.

By demonstrating the superiority of just one product, I had given credibility to many more of my products for them to try.  And once they try them, they’re hooked.  They love them!  Price was never an issue after that.

Price is only an issue if you allow it to be one.  It’s what YOU choose to focus on that will make the greatest impact.

Look for the features and benefits that make your products stand out, and demonstrate how it will benefit your customers.  Use personal testimonials.

And remember, not everyone will buy everything from you.  That’s ok.  Just focus on meeting the needs that you can.  Then find other customers who you can service.  10 - 20 customers buying 10 – 30 (or more) PV worth of products each month still adds up to good retail profits and a larger bonus.

Put as many of them on Ditto as you can, run promotions, but always sell at retail (sug. Retail or above or below, you decide) – figure out how to make it work for you.

Get together with your sponsor or upline leader who has experience servicing several regular retail customers, or find someone in your group that you can team up with and start your own retail program.

Do it for at least 60-days.  Really commit to servicing X number of customers and doing a certain amount of retail PV each month.  It will work for you – if you will commit to it and follow through!

And remember, if at first you don’t succeed, keep trying … until you do succeed.

Then teach it to your group. Duplicate your success.  First Circle profitability.

You will be amazed at your results.

Wishing you success in all your retail efforts!

Focus on a balanced business - retail, personal use and building a team of successful and profitable IBOs.

With all this talk about retail, I need to walk my talk, so I am committing to getting and servicing at least 20 more customers by October 30th.  (I currently have 8 - 10 regular customers).

You Can Do IT!

Sincerely,

Ros

GirlPower said:
August 31, 2007 7:42 PM | #

Nick:

What is stopping you from comparing products yourself? It's not difficult to go to the sites for Clinique®, Lancôme®, Estée Lauder®, and Chanel®, find similar items and compare them to Artistry.

The same w/SA8. How much is a box of Tide at the grocery store... or at Walmart? How many uses will you get out of one box? Figure out how many boxes you would need to buy to equal the same amount of uses from a box of SA8 Bioquest (which beat Tide and all the other competitors, according to Consumer Reports last January)?

As a business owner it's probably a good idea to do some research for yourself from time to time.

Take care!

rdknyvr said:
August 31, 2007 7:46 PM | #

Shannon, within the Quixtar product line, there are a range of prices and "value propositions." I agree that there are products priced too high (my opinion). But there are also lots that are well priced for the value they bring to me, and many that are incredibly priced against any retail competitor. If something doesn't match your sense of value or how much you desire and are willing to pay for that level of quality, there are lots of other Quixtar products to consider.

If you truly are looking at this as a business person, there is more than enough fantastic products to run with and focus on, whether in the Health pathway or Beauty pathway.

And looking beyond, the hiring of Steve Lieberman -- if you've been following that -- was specificially to help Quixtar develop a greater range of "retail-competitive" everyday, consumable products for us to work with, in addition to the premium quality products we already have. And that's just one piece of the many positive developments coming down the line as part of the Transformation process.

Here's a question to consider: when does Warren Buffett decide to buy into a company? When the fundamentals are basically strong, but undervalued in the market due to a lack of insight by most investors. That's where the "complainers" are right now... lack of clear perception and lack of insight.

Second point that I'm sure you've heard in a seminar or training material -- Henry Ford is reputed to have said, to the effect, "Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." Absolutely applies to building this business right now.

Genuine best wishes :)

rdknyvr said:
August 31, 2007 7:49 PM | #

PS Shannon, I'm not knocking your experience with baby formula. There are other examples like that. But at the foundational level, the fundamentals for building this business are strong and sound, especially if you can focus not on the convenience products, but on the high value proposition products. I agree that there is room for improvement on the "convenience products" side. :)

rocket said:
August 31, 2007 9:27 PM | #

Interesting how you don't ever want to be like Wal-Mart.

It is the biggest retailer in history.

It strives to bring consumers value with lower prices than many of its competitors because it knows what people want.  Value for the product, not a lecture about WHY something is better for them.

The most important point, Wal-Mart guarantees satisfaction or your money back.  There's not some big ordeal you have to go through either.  You take it back to the store and get your money.  That's it.

That's why Wal-Mart has always done well, and will continue to do well with their philosophy.

Sadly, it's also their success and lack of respect for their success that ensures Amway/Quixtar's failure.

Jeff Namnum said:
August 31, 2007 9:41 PM | #

You know, I think so many IBOs that I've heard from crossline from me suffer from a business-esteem (as opposed to self-esteem) problem.

Artistry, Nutrilite and XS are TOP RATED PRODUCTS  in the marketplace.  That means that we are THE benchmark.  

Just because Coke, Pepsi and Red Bull don't call IBO's at home to congratulate them doesn't mean that their energy drink division executives don't have dart boards with  cranberry grape blast can picture pasted to it.  Esté Lauder doesn't have their counter sales people compare and contrast their products with the bargain bin lipstics at Walmart.

Does that make the Coke, Pepsi, Red Bull, or Esté brands less valuable, because they have the good sense not to acknowledge their competition? Not at all, they are first class competitors and I'm proud (personally proud, it's my business!) to stand among them.  This is not our grandad's Amway, where we ahd to defend our who-the-heck-ever-heard-of-this products.  We are today's Quixtar /Amway business owners, leaders in the world in the Health and Beauty fields, and by the way pioneers in the coveted Green Environmentally-friendly cleaners!

Be proud or be a customer.  

By the way my upline's been teaching this stuff since the dawn of time and I'm thrilled to see that quixtar U is up and teaching some of this product info.  The artistry class is top-notch, I am really impressed and pleased.  We will use it with all our new IBOs to supplement the training my upline offers (I keep saying my upline because I get the idea we're not really allowed to mention names, but if I'm wrong Quixtar folks, please let me know)

There are improvements that can be made with q/a and my loa, but all-in-all this is the best thing going.  Thanks for listening

kjteam said:
September 1, 2007 12:02 AM | #

To Beryl and Tex:  This will be my last post over here at the quixtar spin zone.  

Yes Beryl I did sleep through those very boring sessions of people who talk the talk but have never walk the walk.  Corprate ra ra on how it's my fault that I don't move products and not q's, the product or the product pricing. It's a bunch of bull.

I did not sleep, however, through the leadership and building a team part of the seminars and took great notes, and walk the walk.

All spinning aside,

I can say that right now, as it is 11:51 PM on the 31st of August.  You might or might not know the significance of this date.  

At midnight we will be Platniums.  Qualified 6 months at 7500 to do it.  Just 18 months after starting team approach with just me and 3 other couples on our team when we started.

I have walked the walk.  

Beryl, if you went Plantinum tonight, all else aside, I want to congradulate you and your family.  

You too Tex, if you went Plantinum tonight, I want to congradulate you also.  

Please post how difficult the struggle is, but, how worth it is also.  

You both are so smart and knowlegeable, I can't wait to hear your inspiring stories of your journey to these coveted pin levels.  God Bless

I'll still be over at the freetheibo.com blogs

cya

paying a big price to have ditto said:
September 1, 2007 12:31 AM | #

I agree the Quixtar core line products are top notch but the other products you can buy in Walmart or Loblaws eg:  mayo is 9.49 retail at Q in the stores is maybe 4.99 same as the large Prego 9.00 plus at Q and 4.50 or 4.99 in stores and now the dog food is double the price of any store, and because it is our business we buy the more expensive products from out self.  I have noticed how the PV keepings going down every year you need to spend more to get your 100 PV for a bonus.  The only thing able to retail is the XS and the Bars.  People who are concerned or take an active interest in their health will buy the vitamins, but the other store products how can you sell them to people at double the price or more than they are already paying for them in the store.

jthompson said:
September 1, 2007 1:46 AM | #

kjteam said:

September 1, 2007 12:02 AM | #

Congratulations!  The growth you have experienced by overcoming fears and learning to be a leaders can never be taken away from you.

educated me - what does platinum mean outside 7501 for 6 of 12 months?

ex:  the ibo teams i have been with really encourage us to pay 12 pv bonus checks with 3 major legs... so the profit ends of being over $2-$3k per month + bonuses = $50k+

What kind of structure/income does a typical team ibo have?

(not negative, i am just curious)

Emet said:
September 1, 2007 4:48 AM | #

Congratulations, KJTeam, if you're still with us.

Going Platinum is a wonderful achievement. My only question is -- what business have you gone Platinum in?

It can't be Quixtar.  Your upline has claimed that Quixtar is an illegal pyramid. They've claimed that Quixtar products are so overpriced that they can't be sold to retail customers and are only purchased by IBOs.

Apparently you agree with them.

So today, September 1, when you go out and show the plan, what are you going to tell people -- come join the illegal pyramid and buy 300 PV of stuff and pour it down the drain?  Or are you going to tell people that they can build this business by finding other intelligent, ambitious people to join them and make money on the sale of Quixtar products?

My wife and I got into the business because we were impressed by the performance of Dish Drops and LOC, and we thought that it was economical at retail and even a better deal at distributor cost.

We did price comparisons on the products we already had under the sink, and concluded that the Amway products worked better and had a cheaper cost-per-use at RETAIL than what we had been using. During our first year in the Business, we sold products to many of the gas stations, bars and restaurants within a half-mile of our apartment in Brooklyn, as well as some of the staff at the college where I was teaching economics.

We won a retailing contest, selling over 1500 PV in 4 days, by focusing on cookware, smoke detectors, and SA8.

When we went Pearl in 1980, two of our three personal Directs had been customers.  

And even though I have not been actively building the business for some time, I still sell SA8 and Dish Drops and Double X to customers who have buying the stuff from me for many years.

And our upline and our their other organizations retail far more than I do.  

We were taught: focus on the core products, not the mayonnaise and baby wipes. Become an expert on the core products that you like, and then help your customers solve their problems.  Don't try to sell them Glister if they already love the toothpaste that they are using.  

But I'm sure you already know that.

I first met Dex in the early seventies and at that time he was teaching that you should be paying out 12 to 15 bonus checks when you go Direct -- or Platinum, in today's parlance.  And the Yagers are still saying the same thing today, more than thirty years later.

I know that it's none of my business, but how many bonus checks are you paying out?  

If I had a different vision about this business and I disagreed with the direction that it was going and wanted to change my own direction, I would go to my many friends in the business, including my upline and downline,  and I would tell them that while I wish them success,  I wanted to do things differently and would be moving on.  I don't think that I would call them fools and liars.  I wouldn't have to since I would be confident that I could quickly build a new organization from scratch, following my improved plan, and marketing my more realistically priced products.

Most people of integrity don't need a confidentiality agreement or a non-compete agreement to know what is the right thing to do -- do they?  

Canadian IBO said:
September 1, 2007 4:50 AM | #

Well the September 1st deadline is upon us and I can't wait to see what Q/A transformation will bring our way.  To all those people concerned about the priceing, you have to do your due diligence and treat this BUSINESS LIKE A BUSINESS!.  Do your own price comparisons if you need to, so you can tell your customers when you demonstrate the products.  I won't be nieve enough to say that all our prices are the best prices out there, but there are lots that are the best. even without getting into the quality and personal service issues.

     I have a daughter who works for a Canadian Grocery Chain and when I go and pick her up from work and she is not ready I will casually stroll through the store and do a few comparisons myself.

The other day I checked out CASHMERE  ULTRA toilet paper against our MEADOWBROOK.  Their's was 3-ply, 240 sheets per roll. (a very high quality paper) at $7.50 for 8 pk. (Just under .94 each) .  Now our brand is 3-ply, 264 sheets per roll (24 sheets per roll more= just over 4 more rolls per case). At full retail from our business it is just over .90 per roll!!!(I hope my math is right)  I'm sure some blogger will check it.  

        Anyways to NIK due your homework, learn about the products, do your own price comparisons (it's fun), learn some quick easy demos and you will be fine...Good luck retailing and remember the 10 customer rule!!!

Ros said:
September 1, 2007 7:25 AM | #

Kjteam,

Congratulations on achieving Platinum!  That’s a great accomplishment in only 18 months!

I’m not Silver yet, but I'm working on it!  So I’m very impressed that you were able to do that in just 18 months and hold it for 6 months straight!  Way to go!

I know going Silver (7500PV) with multiple legs (teams) using the 6-4-2 method, for 6 consecutive months would qualify you as a Platinum (provided you always have an additional 2500PV (or more) side volume over anyone you sponsored below you, who also reached 7500PV in the same month).

But using the vertical approach that the Team organization uses (as I understand it) of 1 leg (or team) of at least 7500PV, AND having a second leg/team (side volume) of at least 2500PV for each of those same qualifying months, and holding that volume for 6 consecutive months.  (I think that’s how it works in the Team organization).  That too is a great accomplishment!  Wow! That is awesome!  Great job!

About meetings … my personal observation about meetings is, (be they product, sales, leadership or business structure oriented), I get out of them what I want to.  If you thought it was applicable to you, then you probably paid attention and found some very useful information, if not, then yes, you probably found it boring.  But if you’re going to be there, why not try to learn something useful?

I believe (granted, I’m not a Silver or Platinum yet) that each of these areas are important and very critical to building a balanced and profitable business long term.  (Personal retail sales, personal use and building a team of profitable IBOs).

Kjteam, I was very surprised by your comments about Ray.  I would have hoped as a leader and new Platinum, you would show him more respect, whether you agreed with him or not.  Especially since some of the IBOs in your downline may be reading this.  We all lead by example.

I can’t say I share your opinion about Ray and what he said.  I believe Ray is absolutely correct, totally up front and honest.  I also believe we have a very exciting (and yes), marketable product line.  I personally retail core line products at full retail price to my customers.  No, I don’t have a lot of customers, (about 10 regulars), but I am successful at selling and servicing them.

I don’t mean you any disrespect or diminish your accomplishments, but I do feel you owe Ray an apology.

Again, congratulations on qualifying Platinum!

Sincerely,

Ros

Tex said:
September 1, 2007 8:45 AM | #

rocket,

You don't have to displace the biggest retailer in history to be successful.

Some people want the lowest price, others want quality, convenience, and an opportunity to make some money.

What "big ordeal" are you talking about? You ship it back with a preprinted return label, Quixtar pays postage both ways. Walmart would have to come out to your house and return your gas money you used when you bought the item to equal that level of service.

I hope Walmart continues to do well. I buy items there that do not have a quality advantage through Quixtar, do not have high PV/BV, and are expensive compared to Walmart. That still leaves me plenty of products to buy and sell through Quixtar.

If we were competitors, you'd have a point about Walmart causing Quixtar's failure, but we're not.

I suggest you read the original post again.

Ros said:
September 1, 2007 8:58 AM | #

Hi ibofightback,

Yes I agree, we all need to do a much better job at increasing our product knowledge.  Retailing is then much easier, more profitable and fun!

Checkout the QuixtarUniversity.com - as of 12 AM this morning it’s now up and running!  And it looks very promising.

I also agree with your other statement … “An overly obsessive "support your own store" type of thing is poor thinking and corrupt economics.”   And I might add, it doesn’t make for a profitable business if there aren’t retail sales to actual (non-IBO) customers to support it.

Price comparisons are helpful, but I believe personal testimonials and actual product knowledge are better, which I believe was your main point.

Appreciate all your great comments and your website too.   Keep up the great work!

Best wishes,

Ros

ibofightback said:
September 1, 2007 9:27 AM | #

kjteam - congrats on platinum. When I said "we run seminars", I was talking about *we* as in our LOA. We have IBOs who are health experts teach about Nutrilite. We have IBOs who are cosmetics experts teach about Artistry. We have IBOs who are water experts teach about eSpring. etc etc etc.

It's being taught by experts in their fields who are also "walking the walk" as IBOs.

Ros said:
September 1, 2007 9:40 AM | #

Hi tommy tucker,

I can’t say I agree with your example of comparing Quixtar with Walmart vs Ben Franklin (which I used to love when I was growing up) and BigK.

The later three are all discount retail store business models.  Quixtar isn’t.

As Ray so eloquently said … “In fact, we respect their [Walmart] obviously successful business model. It's just not our business and it never will be. That is the point of this post.”

It would be like comparing Walmart’s business model to Nordstrom, or Saks 5th Avenue (now that’s funny!).  They’re not even in the same league!  They have completely different approaches and focus.  You’re comparing apples to oranges, or should I say bananas?

Yes, Walmart is very successful at what they do.  Just as we are.

Aside from the obviously very different ways we approach our businesses, the other major difference I see is who (and how many) receive benefits from the business ownership.

Walmart -

The Walton family created a business where people (employees) could get a good job, earn a good income, have a sense of belonging and community, but unfortunately don’t offer much control over their time or how fast they can be promoted or increase their income.

Do most employees rise to become managers?  No, of course not.  Some never aspire to, while those that do, can only move up as quickly as positions are made available, and then only where the company says.  I can hear it now ...

“Good morning Walmart employees!  I’ve got some exciting news!  We have a new opening for an assistant department manager in our new store in Digipuke, Iowa.  This is a great opportunity for the right person.  Anyone interested in transferring?  Anyone?  Is anyone listening?  It’s, a… a… really it’s a great place to live, and they have, er a …”

Business ownership?  Not available to Walmart employees, unless of course you last name starts with “Wal” and ends with “ton” or you marry someone who’s last name does.  Oh, but they may offer stock options (if available).  And of course, the Walton’s (rightly so) deserve their profits for providing so many people employment.

Quixtar –

The DeVos and Van Andel families created a business where people (IBOs) could have true business ownership and all that encompasses it.  Control over their time, a sense of belonging and community, build their businesses as slow or fast, and as profitable as “they” choose.

Do most IBOs become Platinums, Emeralds or Diamonds?  No, of course not.  Some never aspire to or aren’t willing to do the work required.  While those that do wish to achieve these levels, can do so anytime they wish, anywhere they want, (even in Digipuke, Iowa, if there is even such a place).

Just check the latest Achieve magazine, people from all walks of life, from every city, town and state.

The IBO decides their own futures, and if they choose to retire early, they can.  They can sell their businesses, pass it on to their heirs or whatever they choose.

Both Quixtar and Walmart are great companies, both are very successful.  Both provide income and opportunity for many.  It just depends on what you’re looking for as to which you would want to be a part of.

A final note,

You and I as IBOs should be focused on which business model will help us achieve our goals, and not worry so much about how large one business is, or how wealthy it’s founding families are, unless your last name is DeVos or Van Andel or Walton.

Thanks, that's my view on it!

Ros

Shannon in CA said:
September 1, 2007 12:38 PM | #

Congrats KJ. What an accomplishment! My hat is off to ya! So sorry it's in such rotten conditions.

GirlPower said:
September 1, 2007 1:16 PM | #
If people weren't interested in paying more for high-end products there wouldn't be a slew of cosmetics counters in department stores. And Sephora would go out of business. Those who are fine w/cheap crap will continue to buy Cover Girl and Wet & Wild at Walmart. I would never attempt to sell Artistry to the same crowd who would buy Avon. But I would approach my friends who purchase quality. It's important to know your buyers.
Ros said:
September 1, 2007 1:36 PM | #

Hi Emet,

Thanks for sharing your story and lessons of life with us.  I enjoyed it.

Great story, great advice, great leader!

Cheers,

Ros

Jeffrey said:
September 2, 2007 12:45 AM | #
Digipuke, Iowa? That must be near Analogbarf, Wisconsin. You know Wisconsin, the state that loves the Amway business so much, NOT.
Jumping Jeffery said:
September 2, 2007 9:57 AM | #

Some just don't get it.  From wat I have read, what the TEAM would like to do is become the next Wal-Mart.  The TEAM has the business model to do it.  If Q* doesn't want to be a part of that, fine...

THEN LET THEM GO!!  

If they are not competitors, then there is no worrys about TEAM taking away any Quixtar sales right??!!

Quixtar has totally lost all my support, especially when they called IBO's property.  Apparently they are deaf also, or just plain stupid, 'cause they just don't get it!

Rich B said:
September 2, 2007 11:24 PM | #

This is all great and all but I'd like to point out something to you all. Walmart and Target Have entered the world of Network Marketing and MLM. They have partnered up with one of Quixtar's competitors. Market America. At first I didn't believe it but if you check out their site you'll see them listed as partner stores, joint venture or affiliate partners with Market America. I'm not sure how their distributors get paid for shopping thru their website. But non the less. Quixtar needs to wake up and realize that a self consumtion business model where we promote overpriced products in order to receive a bonus check is one unethical, and that's coming from someone who has no problem with making a profit, or even making a profit off the tool system, but look at our target market, price is an issue. The founding families just need to stop lining their pockets with cash or let their people go. oh excuse me I mean their "property" so much for being an INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OWNER!

rdknyvr said:
September 3, 2007 10:34 AM | #

In addition to Rich B's comment, a few weeks ago in the Internet Retailer email update, it was noted that Walmart is now supporting online ordering with local pickup at the nearest Walmart within three days, and thus zero shipping. So yes, that is a real potential challenge, but it can also be a benefit in that it further assists the marketplace is getting accustomed to ordering products online. The advantage we bring is when we come along with unique, high quality/value, potentially life-changing products that we can market to that same customer.

As Rich B and many others have pointed out -- including the IBOAI Board members who STAYED on the Board, we do need to have a broader range of "retail competitive" products to build more of the consumer's budget. The reason I have confidence over the longer term in Quixtar management (inspite of some of their acknowledged mistakes) relates to the hiring of Steve Lieberman as our new president, specifically to guide development of Quixtar's "retail competitive" expansion.

Nevertheless, combined with that, we as IBOs need to commit to better learning how to sell the unique performance high value products we already have (for me, it's Nutrilite). To use the Henry Ford quote, "Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right." And that's also where Quixtar U comes in... if you haven't checked that out yet, put it next on your agenda. It's an excellent "first edition" and is designed for continual improvements.

But to go back to Rich B's comment -- yes, there is a danger from Walmart and others and we can't pretend it's not there merely by saying "that's not our business model," and "we don't want to be Walmart." The old business models aren't the same anymore -- everything is "fluid" and we need to consider that going forward.

However, Rich B, I respectfully don't agree with your last two lines. :)

amazed said:
September 3, 2007 11:41 AM | #

So, Alticor doesn't want to be Wal-Mart... that is great... I would hate to think that Alticor would even consider themselves competition against P&G or something, oh... they do. Sorry that I don't fall for propaganda, but Wal-Mart is the leading retail chain in the US, and for a retail company to not have that as their goal, oh yeah, Quixtar isn't a retail company, it is a "self-consumption" model... nevermind.

rdknyvr said:
September 3, 2007 3:20 PM | #

APPLE PARTNER STORE?

Ray, what would it take to get an Apple as one of our Partner Stores? The company I work for has an arrangement like this with Apple for its employees -- there are about 28,000 of us around the world. It gives us about a 15% discount off the Apple retail store prices, and on certain days of the year, there is a much deeper one-day discount available. The iPhone isn't in our store, but just about everything else is.

With appreciation,

rdknyvr said:
September 3, 2007 3:26 PM | #

Amazed, you make good points, ie. the "self-consumption" model point, except for the fact that Quixtar/Alticor announced last May sometime that it is radically changing the way it looks at IBOs -- changing from the customer mind-set to treating IBOs like the independent business owner "sales force" we are. I realize that some critics, including some TEAM people, are locked down on their views, but some (many, actually) of the otherwise worth-listening-to concerns you and others raise, are very much in the process of being changed. Is it possible for you to acknowledge that, give some credit where due, even if the change isn't enough to satisfy you totally? Just a thought. :)

YankeeIBO said:
September 3, 2007 4:14 PM | #

Okay--I don't know who came up with the ridiculous notion that we have to compete with Wal-Mart to survive, but let's think about it, beyond the "It's all about Price" mantra we keep hearing (mostly) from the TEAM contingent:

1. Wal-Mart already HAS an online ordering system for most of their product line--not all. Why does the world need another one? The people who aren't using that service, now, are unlikely to use a similar one.

2. Wal-mart charges the same price online as it does in the stores--why don't they give a discount for online purchases, since they don't have the overhead involved with brick and mortar stores? Their might be a profit motive in there, somewhere. After all, this is the same organization that made its employees work through breaks without pay, AND had an unwritten policy of working their folks to just under full-time hours so they wouldn't have to pay them any benefits--now don't you feel good about those low prices?

3. WM didn't get where it is because of price--even though that was one of Walton's main areas of focus, it wasn't the only one. They were the store that supported the American worker by buying only American-made products--until the American companies either dried up because they couldn't operate on the profit levels the WM deals left them with, or because WM went to China looking for cheaper products because it was the only way he could compete in the downward-spiraling price wars--OR get the merchandise he wanted. Try finding a pair of sneakers made in the US.

4. WM also maintained a broader product inventory than anyplace before him--creating the one-stop shop. Convenience and location are more important than price to the people who wo go there--K-Mart could beat them on price for like items, but they didn't offer everything that WM does. So what is the advantage to buying Wal-Mart-type items online, if you are going there anyway to get stuff you can't get online--where is the "hook" that would convince the WM shopper to buy similar product at similar price from you, online, instead of just throwing it in the cart on their next trip for groceries to Super WM??

5. Let's talk about expenses. Many think that the expense of multiple retail locations could be wiped out by doing business online. The reality is that all that expense would be transferred to warehouse locations and order-processing centers that would need to be created to handle the orders and deliveries. Just coordinating with UPS is a huge undertaking, requiring LOTS of software, hardware, and man-hours to make and meet delivery schedules. I know what it takes to take, process, pull, check orders for delivery in a $200 mil distribution center--the thought of what Quixtar/Amway deals with boggles my mind! All those people who pull stuff off delivery trucks and stack them on shelves become order pickers who pull things out of slots to fill orders--at a much higher rate of pay, as well as higher equipment expenditures. I don't see much savings, here.

Lastly, you only excel in business when you can:

a) provide a unique product that fills a need in the market place;

b) Take something that's already being done and do it better--to fill a need in the marketplace; or

c) supply a product or service with added value that answers a desire that fills a need in the marketplace.

Us trying to compete with Wal-Mart--who already excels in their niche--would be a fool's game, to say the least! There are plenty of people who buy Longaberger and Tupperware, and pay a lot more for it than they would for similar items they could buy at Wal-Mart--why do you think that is?

When you know the answer to that question, you will know why we will NEVER compare ourselves to Wal-Mart, or any other discount house--and why we can sell our products successfully. I think all the new customers I believe we are seeing from the Team Nutrilite website speaks volumes in that regard!

Jeffrey said:
September 4, 2007 5:42 AM | #

I just saw the new Simply Nutrilite product line. It looks good except for one thing: The drink cans are available only in a case of 12. Do you guys in marketing ever read these blogs? We DO NOT want to buy products in case lots. Let me re-phrase that: WE DO NOT WANT TO BUY PRODUCTS IN CASE LOTS.

A Kline said:
September 4, 2007 12:25 PM | #

Simply incredible.

Way to go Q on the Simply Nutrilite line. We don't want cheap crap...we want products that are quality, look good, have fair market value, and are "simple" to promote.

You are listening and taking action.

Thank you.

jthompson said:
September 4, 2007 2:23 PM | #

Jeffrey,  

Most ibos like DO WANT TO BUY IN CASE LOTS.  Let me re-phrase that, we DO WANT TO BUY IN CASE LOTS.

Thanks Quixtar.  Simply Nutrilite is a great Alternitive to XS... similar type products but are NATURAL w/o sucralose, etc....   Now we have products not just for 90% of the market, but all 100%.  Great Job!

_________________

Walmart does not manufactor/create any products.

Quixtar does make patented innovative products.

I don't want to be Walmart

Beryl Nichols said:
September 4, 2007 4:16 PM | #

Jeffrey,

When you say "WE", surely you are speaking for yourself and that should be written "I".  Personally, I always buy drinks by the case, usually 24.

Drink one, spill one, sample one, give one away and your done, unless you buy by the case.

We are not talking SA-8 which lasts 3-4 months.

UP UR PV  Jeffrey  Buy in case lots!

Beryl Nichols said:
September 4, 2007 4:39 PM | #

Amazed,

Propaganda this is not.  But, Quixtar/Amway IBO's are in the Direct Selling Business.  Our business is done at the kitchen table with friends, relatives, neighbors or strangers if you have none of the first three.  We are not retailers, as the name implys, and never have been.  We do, however, have a suggested retail price.

Maybe you should go upline to find out what you are involved in.  Good luck

jthompson said:
September 4, 2007 5:05 PM | #

Walmart pricing -

Quixtar - Price + 180 day moneyback guarantee and they pay shipping + personal relationships with upline/ibo retailer + outstanding customer support 800-253-6500 and quick response time + patented top-notch products + for ibos support your own business

Walmart - Price + waiting in LONG lines + not getting a thank you note or commission for shopping + no referral fee + poor customer service + gas money + most employees don't really care about you on a personal basis like your independent business owner cares about you and appreciates your business

Cosidering Price/Cost, convenience, value, buying experience, customer services.... and the fact that walmart won't pay for my kids colllege education but quixtar will..... i think i will stick with Quixtar.

GirlPower said:
September 4, 2007 8:19 PM | #

Jeffrey,

XS is only available in a case of 12 as well.

Are you seriously interested in paying shipping to order just one can? That's beyond believable. Especially when you have to wait for delivery. It's not like running to the gas station and grabbing one can of (grossly over-priced) Red Bull.

Take care!

Josh said:
September 5, 2007 12:00 AM | #

Well for those who are dedicated IBOs and are really serious about building your business, if you find yourself at Wal-Mart, remember this saying as you walk out with products in hand that you could have bought at your own business.

"Thank you for supporting the goals, dreams, and ambitions of the Walton family and not your own!"

Last time I was at Wal Mart I had to leave because it made me feel nausiated (SP?).  I left with purchasing nothing.  Worked well for me!

Jeffrey said:
September 5, 2007 12:10 AM | #

Yeah, I'm going to place an order for one can of drink. Umm, not.

Go to the store and buy 15 different things. Get up to the checkout line and have them tell you that 10 of the items are available only in case lots. Let's see how fast you go for the door.

Marketing department, you have my phone number. Call me. I'll explain this to you.

Beryl Nichols said:
September 5, 2007 3:25 PM | #

Jeffrey,

You don't get it do you?  We are simply talking XS & Nutrilite drinks, and that is ALL, nothing else.

You remind me of a client I had years ago.  I quoted him the price of a box of SA-8.  He said "hey, man that's too expensive."  I can buy 10 cans of beans for the same amount!

And the "folly" of the Marketing Dept of a 50 year old company operating in and delivering product to every city in every state in the U.S. in addition to 80 foreign countries, having a need to call YOU for advice, on anything is a real stretch