Not Wal-Mart and Never Want to Be
Friday, August 31, 2007  by Ray Alexander
Category: , ,

Many questions have been raised recently about the price of Quixtar’s products. Specifically, some have wondered how Quixtar Independent Business Owners can possibly compete with the Wal-Marts and Costcos of the world, given the premium price of many of our exclusive products.

I think it’s important to understand that many of our brands, especially ARTISTRY® skin care and cosmetics and NUTRILITE® vitamins and supplements, are high-quality products intended to compete in the marketplace on the value and performance they provide – not on the basis of being the cheapest moisturizer or multivitamin you can find. In other words. People pay more for a Volvo than a Volkswagen because they view Volvo as providing more value. The same applies to our exclusive brands like ARTISTRY and NUTRILITE.  These and other Quixtar brands are premium priced and designed for a specific target market seeking prestige, quality and performance.

Price comparisons on our products should take into consideration that Quixtar's exclusive brands are:
• supported by world-class research and development
• contain the highest- quality ingredients, and often feature attributes not available in other products
• backed by the latest technology, a state-of-the-art distribution system, and more than 600 worldwide patents
• sustained by seven manufacturing facilities and five distribution centers

You won’t find value propositions like these on the shelves of your corner discount store:

• NUTRILITE products are the world's leading brand of vitamins, minerals, and dietary supplements.* With total quality control of its plant concentrates from seed to tablet, NUTRILITE is the only global vitamin and mineral brand to grow, harvest, and process plants on its own certified organic farms.** NUTRILITE supplements often deliver more key phytonutrients per serving than the competition.

• The ARTISTRY brand's high-quality formulas, elegant packaging, and technologically advanced product innovation have placed ARTISTRY among the world's top five largest-selling prestige brands of facial skin care and colour cosmetics.*** It's priced competitively with others in this distinguished group, which includes well-known brands like Clinique®, Lancôme®, Estée Lauder®, and Chanel®.

• Home brands like L.O.C.® Multi-Purpose Cleaner and the SA8® laundry system are often priced lower than the competition on a cost-per-use basis. When comparing apples to apples, home products meet or beat the competition on product performance, cost, or both.

• XS™ Power Nutrition products include sports drinks, protein shakes, energy bars and energy drinks that have all of the “energy,” and none of the sugar of other energy drinks. XS products are priced very competitively with many other sports nutrition brands.

• The ATMOSPHERE™ Air Purifier, as seen by the 44 million viewers of ABC’s hit TV Show “Extreme Makeover Home Edition,” purifies with advanced technology that automatically monitors the quality of the air in your home - effectively removing up to 99.99% of the contaminant and pollutant particles that are drawn through the system, down to sizes as small as .01 microns.

• The eSpring® Water Purifier effectively removes greater than 140 health-effect contaminants and destroys more than 99.95% of bacteria, viruses and cysts with a patented dual technology filter cartridge. It is more cost effective over time and consistently outperforms bottled water, pitcher filters and faucet filters.

These products not only deliver unsurpassed performance and value, they come with the personalized attention, product knowledge, and customer service provided by Quixtar IBOs. Those who argue that we must compete on product price alone are completely ignoring the value that IBOs bring to the sale. IBOs are knowledgeable product experts who work by a customer’s side to make recommendations based on needs, explain features and benefits, answer questions, or help check out. This level of service is not to be found at the big box discount store, but is part of what Quixtar customers pay for when they choose one of our products over one that they could buy cheaper from a store shelf.

Thanks to the value provided by our products and by the IBOs who sell them, Quixtar is the leading online retailer of health and beauty products, according to Internet Retailer magazine* for the fourth consecutive year. That means we sell more health and beauty products online than Avon, Sephora, Clinique and anyone else.

We stand behind the quality of all our products and guarantee customer satisfaction. If for any reason a customer tries a product and is not completely satisfied, they can return it within 180 days of purchase for an exchange or refund of the product price and applicable tax.

Ultimately, the market decides the value of the products sold by any given company. Quixtar's product pricing reflects the high esteem with which our products are held.


*Based on 2006 sales. **Based on a survey of global vitamin and dietary supplement brands conducted by Euromonitor International. ***Based on a 2006 Euromonitor Consultancy study of global retail sales.

Editor's Note: Many commentators appear to be focused on Wal-Mart in their comments to this post but please understand that it is not Quixtar's intention to disparage Wal-Mart. In fact, we respect their obviously successful business model. It's just not our business and it never will be. That is the point of this post.


Comments

Joe said:
August 31, 2007 10:25 AM | #

That was like a breath of fresh air.  Thank you for telling it like it is. :-)

jmoses said:
August 31, 2007 10:54 AM | #

Amen!

I spend lots of time at TEAMs freetheibo website where they talk about Walmart...

I don't think TEAM does product education at all.

Go to Walmart and buy cheap crap on sale.  Have fun.  Just don't go there after 10pm at night.... it looks like a scene from "Night of the Living Dead" with zombies.  I don't go to Walmart - i don't like demons and don't like a spirit of poverty.

Quixtar is trend-setter.  I am a certified personal trainer.

Quixtar came out with protein bars in 2001 when i became an ibo.  They were the FIRST to sweeten their products with sucralose... the other people still used aspartame.  Now everyone (ex: EAS) has switched from aspartame to to sucralose.

I have espring and it rocks... uv light system.  Top Quality.

XS blows away the other loser drinks with sugar, aspartame, and no variety of tasty flavors.

My mom raves about the cleaning products like SA8 and LOC.  Also i love the partner stores.... I got to FranklinCovey to get my planner... i get discount lower than nonIBOS and then i get lots of pv.  

IBO Life ROCKS!!!!

Thanks Quixtar/Amway... i sense you are really letting us know how PROUD you are of who we are.

don't worry about your "trash talking" blogs of late.  We are in the middle of a Business Transformation.  Its ok to show a little attitude.  I am glad I am not in business with Corporate Wimps.

Go TEAM GO!  (Orrin, Chris, Ron...     TEAM ibos - you rock, STAY team STAY!!!)

Editor's Note: Please understand that we do not intend to disparage Wal-Mart. We actually respect their obviously successful business model. It's just not our business model and it never will be. That's the point we're trying to make here.

jmoses said:
August 31, 2007 10:57 AM | #

Yes - try buying [edit: products] in a box at Walmart.... and in 4 months... after using it and not liking it... try to return it!

Quixtar customer service at 800-253-6500 is amazing.  I was born in Michigan and lived there until age seven...   Quixtar employees make me proud of the State of Michigan.

Listen Up -  "Every seed of adversity carries with it a seed of equivalent or greater benefit"

All this TEAM junk of late...... is going to be fuel and motivation ...   we are going to make the Corporationa and IBO Field... better than ever!

Tex said:
August 31, 2007 11:02 AM | #

Whoosh! That was the sound of the wind being knocked out of the sails of the lawyer representing Orrin and Co.  I don't think much of this was new information either. It largely came off the existing Quixtar/Amway website, right?

As I said in another thread (the nice, second version, that was posted):

Orrin "Rosie Ruiz" Woodward - Give it up.

jmoses said:
August 31, 2007 11:04 AM | #

Plus....  with shop.com and partner stores.... we have every single product Walmart has!  Ha!

How many MOMS and DADS has Walmart allowed to quit their jobs and stay home with their kids?

Walmart is cool!  I would be FIRED UP if my last name was Walton but its not!

I would rather be a PRO-SUMER and put my money into my own business/distributorship.

I would rather the profits from the money i spend on consumables go to the people i know, care about, and the people who have served me.  Founders and employees of Amway, my uplines all of them, and ME.

Thank you very much!

tommy tucker said:
August 31, 2007 11:13 AM | #

Dream Biz "you can take advantage of change or change can take advantage of you."

It is evident we are in changing times which is simply opurtunity in its finest moment.

I'm sure Sam Walton had Ben Franklin and the BigK say something similar when he approched them about some needed changes.

Sam we are not "Walmart" we are K-mart and this is the way we do buisness so go back to your Ben franklin stores.

That is not exactly what Sam did.  He took a stance and put everything on the line to cut out the unnessisary steps to build an empire.  Taking avdvantage of change.

BigK had the suppiers the networks the years of buisness all in there favor.  One thing they did not have is the open mind to hear and understand tha change was upon them.

That same song and dance everyone has known to be true but very few people have the vision to see when it is actually happening.  I beleive change is upon us once more.

Do you want to be right or wealthy..........some will be both.

A Kline said:
August 31, 2007 11:19 AM | #

I think you've explained the problem very well. I don't think anyone who knows the A/Q biz want to "compete" with Walmart's prices, I think we want to be able to tell customers and new IBO's, with confidence, that the products are worth every penny (at the same time, I'm sure you could manufacture toothpaste that really is worth a thousand dollars a tube...but who's going to buy it?).

I say you pointed the problem out very well for two reasons.

1. When you were siting reasons why the products our not over-priced by saying you should take into account things like:

"• backed by the latest technology, a state-of-the-art distribution system, and more than 600 worldwide patents

• sustained by seven manufacturing facilities and five distribution centers".

When do you go to the store, see a very expensive product, and say to yourself, "It's expensive, but hey...they have a state-of-the-art distribution system, 600 world-wide patents, and seven manufacturing facilities...so, I guess it's worth it."

No!...you don't care about that...you care about the price of the product you are paying for.

For you to include that as reasons for a price difference does not make sense. It does make sense if we were talking about the business to a prospective IBO, but isn't that the problem, that you've put out products for committed IBO's, not customers?

2. Okay, we've sited all the research, development, and scientists (world-class, in fact), but at the same time, one of the most successful products available from Q right now is XS... how much involvement did this r&d have in XS (since they were/are an outside vendor)?

If you say, our world-class expensive r&d were not that involved...doesn't the success of that competitive priced (w/ out having to explain for 30 minutes) product make sense....that maybe the high price of in-house r&d isn't as important?

If you say, our world-class expensive r&d were very involved in XS...then how are you able to get it at such a quality price?

Also, your telling us you're going to put out some more "retail able" products and we are starting to see a move in that direction...why continue to try and "save-face"?

I appreciate Q, the founders, and all the employees (shout out to Dan A!), but this just seems like spin to me?

Nick said:
August 31, 2007 11:32 AM | #

I'm a new IBO with only a couple of retail sales.  I've been trying to find price comparison data and find it very frustrating.  The anti-Quixtar/Amway crowd seems very biased.  There doesn't seem to be data (that I've found) from Quixtar.  What comparisons there are is from catalogs -- certainly spun to the needs of Quixtar/IBOs.  If catalogs don't have a comparison on a product, it makes you wonder why.

What products do you compare against?

What prices do you use to compare against?

What are the actual results of your comparisons?

I do not want to be a Wal-Mart.  I want to offer products with goodvalue/cost.  In cases where we are priced lower than others in the marketplace, then that is a bonus.  If price is slightly above competitive products, ok.  If price is way more than the competition, then what is justification for the price?

No doubt that lots of these questions will be answered in blogs, QU, and the like.  I suppose that I'm expressing frustration and concerns I have.  If a prospective customer has a concern, then I should feel that I'm reasonably able to answer the concern.  Especially when price comparisons (valid or not) are all over the internet.

Chad said:
August 31, 2007 11:44 AM | #

Ray and Joe,

I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think there are some areas/brands or better yet some of the subcategories that we do carry that I do wonder about from time to time as I'm sure other IBOs do. For instance items like Diapers, the Glister Toothpaste, the Body Series deodorant, and other subcategory items. Although we use these products, they are sometimes slightly higher in price without a really good story to bring them value such as some of our big heavyweight powerbrands like SA8 Detergent and Double X. Two of the areas that do concern me pricewise are the trash bags and paper products which I'm not sure are very competitive from a customer or IBO perspective. Trash bags and paper products could be priced more competitively.

Ray, one question I do have is the word of course has been spreading via the organizations from the corporation regarding lower pricing on certain products/lines, almost like walmart-pricing coming in Sept and Nov (I think I saw it on some of the other Opportunity Zone Blog author sites). How true is that and what areas/product lines will be affected if you can speak to it? Thanks.

johnnymosesthompson said:
August 31, 2007 12:02 PM | #

jthompson is same person as johnny moses thompson or jmoses.

Please post my comments - they are rather good.

Or change them all to the same name.  

i am retiring from blogging very soon.

Editor's Note: Johnny, I see that you are one guy, one email, multiple user names. Just pick one name in the future and stick with it, please, to eliminate confusion. We'll post anything and everything from you that complies with our comments policy. Thanks!

MP Zildjian said:
August 31, 2007 12:09 PM | #

You're right Alitcor.. we should all be proud. Lets not forget these wonderful elements either.. wouldn't want to sell ourselves short..

-3.4%

-Jay Factor

-Sep 12

-Powerless IBOAI board

-Alticor handling the training system

-Lawyers at the helm

-And of course our new, well known, worldwide,   respected name that is going to carry us all to our goals and dreams.

The future looks so bright.. thanks again.

JIM MILLER said:
August 31, 2007 12:22 PM | #

NO ONE QUESTIONS HOW GOOD THE PRODUCTS ARE . THEY ARE GREAT , FOR PERSONAL IBO USE . AS FOR FIRST CIRCLE TRANSFORMATION , NOT SO MUCH .

STILL PRICED TO HIGH FOR MORE THAN A SMALL % OF THE US MARKET TO KEEP BUYING OVER A LONG PEROID OF TIME .

THATS WHY YOU HAVE MORE PV AT SIGN UP  , FOR PROMOTIONS, AND FROM FREINDS / RELATIVES THAT BUY FOR A WHILE FROM NEW IBOS . LONG TERM THE PRICE WAR WINS OUT.

LONG TERM CONSUMERS WILL BUY A BETTER PRICED ITEM EVEN IF IT ISN'T AS GOOD AS THE ONE DOWN THE STREET.

MCDONALDS VS. MOST ANY GOOD FOOD ?

Shannon in California said:
August 31, 2007 12:30 PM | #

I'd be curious to ask, how much of these quality products are sold at the published retail cost vs. wholesale? If an IBO has to sell these great quality items at wholesale cost to actually sell the product, then this negates the whole "value vs. cost" issue. Why even have a "retail cost"? Also, what about the other items that aren't the sweet 16 products, like tee pee, diapers, and other commodities? You believe those are priced well? And, interestingly enough, many of these items that are labeled as "quality" are distributed under the same name, just repackaged with your label and can be found as the cheap stuff at Costco. I've found that especially with the diapers, and with the formula! Very upsetting considering the lousey PV/BV ratio! It's not the top quality you brag about at all! Ok, so for the sweet 16 products, I'd agree, there's quality there and I think it's good stuff... but if no-one is paying RETAIL for the product, then it's NOT PRICED WELL!

ibofightback said:
August 31, 2007 12:46 PM | #

Great post, but I'd disagree with one thing you said Ray -

IBOs are knowledgeable product experts

It would appear from reading comments from TEAM IBOs that many are *not* at all knowledgeable in this area. Without that knowledge, it would indeed be very difficult to retail the products. We run seminars on Nutrilite, Artistry, and eSpring to educate IBOs and customers about their benefits. Can TEAM IBOs let us know what product training TEAM was supplying?

I'm not interested in the cheapest products, I want the best, at the best value.

Chad said:
August 31, 2007 1:19 PM | #

Shannon,

Just as an FYI, we've found the diapers and wipes through Quixtar to work just as good as anything else on the market. Although the price seems out of whack, we sell the diapers/wipes at retail because we promote the Ditto Delivery aspect of it so that busy moms won't wake up sleepy dads in the middle of the night to run to Walmart because they ran out-LOL! So from that value added piece of Ditto, it all works to the good and probably could be used as the missing factor for value added for products such as these. But what I absolutely can't justify to customers are the trash bags and paper goods-I don't think one could add enough value Ditto-wise or anything else to justify those prices. I agree with ibofightback, I don't want the cheapest, but I do want something that has the best value added which allows me to somewhat compete in the marketplace.

Just as side note to all on this blog-I think we should leave the TEAM aspect out of this particular blog as its being discussed in many other blogs that are specific to that topic. Outside of what I see in the What's New section of Quixtar and these blogs, I have no attachment to the TEAM organization/affiliation so speaking for myself I have nothing negative at all to talk against or to the TEAM folks. Basically I'm keeping my nose out of that discussion-LOL!

LM said:
August 31, 2007 1:21 PM | #

I'm all for keeping our prices competitive. That said, If the trends were toward cheaper and price were the only reason people buy , why are Fudruckers and Red Robin opening new locations like mad with lines standing out the door. Certainly no one could sell $7.00 cheeseburgers. I'd sooner promote a quality product and explain the reason for a higher price, than sell price and appologize for poor quality later.

rdknyvr said:
August 31, 2007 1:23 PM | #

Ray, there is some interesting overlap between your post and the most recent posts from Susan and Beth on catalogs and selling tools for Health and Beauty product pathways.

In accordance with IBOFB's insight above, perhaps more in-depth product training could be offered through Quixtar U, and the catalogs re-sized and focused more for Customers... although one should remember that IBOs are also customers too, as well as business people, and some of our product education does come by necessity through the catalogs

MichMan said:
August 31, 2007 1:31 PM | #

ibofightback, if the corp is going to help people retail, they will have to help them explain why their "Cadillac" brand of hair gel, toothpaste, coffee, toilet paper or shampoo is SIX TIMES HIGHER than similiar products they can get at the grocery store.

Amway should survey their own employees to see what their tolerance level is for "Cadillac" consumables.  

I would bet that most employees would not buy ANY of the products if it weren't for the 75 percent savings at Amway Employee Discount Store across the street from the corp headquarters.

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 1:34 PM | #

Right On Ray!!!

And you didn't even mention all the professionals like yourself working behind the scenes to make sure EVERYTHING works the way it was intended.  I have an "overpriced" CMS1000 suck bucket (vacuum) that is still marvelous.  I can still get parts, belts, filters, and upgrades to ClearTrac if I want, after over 20 years.

Thank you so much for addressing the pricing issues.  I have been reading all these pricing complaints on the blogs and have almost blown an aneurism.  

Who in their right mind would want to own a  business that sells products to compete with WalMart, Kmart fall apart, Target or the others?  

This business has ALWAYS been a cut above the rest and I appreciate all the efforts the corporation puts forth to keep it that way.  

We IBO's need to become educated enough to do a good demonstration explaining the points you made and stand up for the quality and performance of the product.  Price is always about five levels DOWN in what the customer is looking for when considering a product purchase, whatever it is.  If we get a customer that is concerned with ONLY the price, they just need to be educated on the features and benefits of our product and they can clearly see why the price is what it is, and we back that up with the satisfaction guarantee. (And the guarantee costs the IBO Nothing)

Quixtar/Amway have always dealt with this in a very professional way.  First, buy the product and use it yourself.  Your upline will be glad to teach you about the features and benefits of all the products or put you in touch with some who can do this.  When you are convinced with the facts, you are ready to go face to face with a real customer.

Imagine how long we would last in a Porche dealership with a Chevrolet mentality.  Yet, for some reason when we sign up as an IBO we expect everything to be cheap.  Where does this misinformation come from?

The day the corporation rolls over and starts marketing cheap products, this opportunity will cease to be the BEST OPPORTUNITY IN THE WORLD!!!  

Nick said:
August 31, 2007 2:20 PM | #

Back to pricing concerns for products (data, justifications, etc):

"We stand behind the quality of all our products and guarantee customer satisfaction. If for any reason a customer tries a product and is not completely satisfied, they can return it within 180 days of purchase for an exchange or refund of the product price and applicable tax."

This is not a reason to buy - it's a reason why a customer should feel good about doing business with me.

"Ultimately, the market decides the value of the products sold by any given company."

This is exactly why we (as IBOs) need price comparison/justification data.  People buy based on this information - not the 100% money-back guarantee.

Please understand, I signed up in TEAM.  Almost everything that I saw in their promotional/motivational material and what I was told by my sponsor I totally disagree with.  I'm cautiously encouraged by the steps Quixtar/Amway is taking.  It is why I'm still around and actively participating in this discussion.

"Quixtar's product pricing reflects the high esteem with which our products are held."

Who has been esteeming our products in the past 10-20 years?   Has it been retail customers who purchase at retail price?  I would wager that because of tool business abuses, the only people who have been using our products have been IBOs ("buy from your own store and tell others how they can, too").

Quixtar, please be transparent with cost comparisons with us IBOs.  That includes the very good, the good, the bad, and the ugly.  Please don't spin data that doesn't look so great.  We can handle the results.  We can try to particpate in making Quixtar better in the marketplace so we don't have to wrap our "sales" as "business opportunities".  We can't help when we don't have data. We lose confidence when we feel that Quixtar is spinning results.

Again, this is a request for improvement, not a reason to quit or find better opportunity.  There probably are very few, if any, better MLM opportunities - provided we sell marketable products at marketable prices to the market - not other IBOs.

soontobewoodwardibo said:
August 31, 2007 2:30 PM | #

Comments policy: Please note that comments are moderated .  We reserve the right to remove without warning any and all offensive, unlawful, defamatory, or libelous comments, as well as any personal attacks or offensive language.

my question to the comment policy:  No matter what side you are on, How and why do you let Tex and others "offensive, unlawful, defamatory, or libelous comments, as well as any personal attacks or offensive language."

Those are your words "Comment Policy" not mine.  So please tell me where you draw the line.  As tex's comments about Orrin wooward may fit within that

tex---t

Editor's Note: Moderating comments is certainly more of an art than a science and we strive to enforce our comments policy as consistently as possible. I'm not aware of the specifc comment to which you're referring in which you believe a line has been crossed.

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 2:36 PM | #

A Kline,

Talk about spin!!  Ray didn't even mention X/S for a very good reason......as you mentioned X/S is not an Amway/Quixtar manufactured product and of course would not apply to his examples.  But, it does have something to do with fulfillment, inventory, distribution, quality control.  Do you want something for nothing?  It would seem so.

When you compare NON-A/Q manufactured products to A/Q manufactured products you are comparing apples to oranges.  

I can appreciate the fact that most IBO's are not business owners and don't have business experience.  So, the only basis they have for what things cost is WalMart, Kmart, Costco, Sams, etc.  But, you will not find ANY of our CORE products for sale in ANY of these stores.  So, what do we do in an effort to compare prices?  We go to toilet paper, diapers, paper goods, etc.  NEWS FLASH!! A/Q does not manufacture these paper goods!  They do however inventory these items FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE should you want to buy them.  Does EVERYTHING have to be cheaper?  That is unrealistic and irrelevant.

Do we figure the true cost of products from WalMart, etc?  Time, gas, wear and tear, insurance, parking lots in the rain and snow, walking to and from the car(that is a good thing) vs. point & click.

I promise that Q/A tracks returns.  Did you know that you are not "satisfied" if YOU feel the price was too high, after having used the product.  Send it back at "their expense!"  Game over!!

Also, there is a big difference in a person going to the store and "thinking about what is behind the cost of an expensive product" and an IBO sitting at the kitchen table, demonstrating the quality and performance of the product from his/her business.  Again, YOU spin!

Spend some time actually writing down ALL the things we get FOR FREE in this business, compared to any other MLM or conventional business, especially.  THEN maybe you will get excited about the company you are involved with.

Keep the Faith

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 2:38 PM | #

Jim Miller,

Please help me clear the fog.  What process do you follow in determining what the price of a product should be?  

kjteam said:
August 31, 2007 2:45 PM | #

Ray Alexander, your  an overpaid  spin doctor!!!

spin, spin, spin, spin,spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin,

Just go ahead and  post the core line catalog product prices on here and let people choose for themselves.

"We run seminars on Nutrilite, Artistry, and eSpring to educate IBOs and customers about their benefits.

 Yea, I've been to some of those.  Got plenty of sleep in my chair during thoses sessions.  

For the real truth, including a blog on product comparrison go to freethibo.com

tman said:
August 31, 2007 3:04 PM | #

I have been in sales for 14 years. Both as a part of this business and my day job. One thing is for sure. You will never be the cheapest on everything. PERIOD. I have a $1000.00 for anyone that can prove that Walmart is 100% cheaper on everything in the store.

I have 2 Walmarts within about 3miles of my house and yes I have done some informal price comparisons. Just recently we priced out a couple products at Walmart that weren't even priced the same in each store. So let's get over this we have to be cheaper than Walmart stuff. And just because it is cheaper doesn't necessarily mean it is better.

Here's a good example... A couple of months ago I had an ant problem outside of my house. I went to the local Home Improvement Store and the sales person recommended a product. I chose instead to take an "equivilent product" at a lesser cost. Man I saved almost $7.  2 weeks later I still had the ant problem. So I went back and bought the product that the sales person recommended in the first place and guess what within a week the ant problem was gone. So was the cheaper brand really cheaper? It doesn't take rocket science to figure that one out.

Here is another one from the business. I had a client who was buying XS from me at full retail. She just told me today that she had been buying from another IBO at the IBO Cost and asked me if I would sell it to her at the IBO Cost. I said no. The reason is I always deliver it when you call. Usually the same day. I always break up cases for you 4 Grape 4 Root Beer 4 Citrus etc. At some point my time has to be worth soemthing. If you would like to become an IBO then certainly you would have the same opportunity that I have to purchase at the IBO Cost and better than that I can show you how to build a business that would give you some options outside of what you are doing here (She happens to cut my hair) Unfortunatley she did not take me up on the IBO part but she said "you know, you are right. The person I was ordering from before would never break up the cases and it would take her a couple of weeks soemtimes to get what I want."

It's called delivering value. That's why I love this business. We are defining the market place with Value. We are not a copycat , we sell the same thing only cheaper discount buying club. This is a business. This is a business that has products that are the leaders in their respective exclusive categories. It amazes me that after the 4 or 5 years that we have had XS that still no one in the beverage industry has been able to duplicate a sugar free, energy drink that actually tastes good. It amazes me that Double X has been on the market for 70+ years and no one has been able to duplicate it and sell it cheaper.

My question to all the Walmart wanna be's is this. Are you in business or just doing something on the side? It is okay to be just doing something on the side just understand that this business will cost you money if you are treating it as a hobby. If you want to treat this as a business then learn to differentiate yourself from the competition. That is what we get paid for. To differentiate and add value to the customer. Whether that "customer" is a retail customer or a new IBO.

Jeffrey said:
August 31, 2007 3:10 PM | #

BRAVO! I have always said in my presentations that the products we have are a higher quality than what you can find at the store.

I will admit that some are priced quite a bit higher than store brands with little difference in performance, like the bowl cleaner, but I use it anyway, even in my janitorial business. Would a customer buy it? Yes, if we can get brand loyalty from good experiences they get from other quality products, like the SA8 and LOC., and the convenience of having it delivered right to their home, whether ordered from the web or the IBO right along with their other consumables.

Nick: The products I use in my cost comparisons are: XS Energy Drink vs. Red Bull (same price), Glister Oral Rinse vs. Scope (number of uses and cost for total uses), SA8 Bioquest vs. Tide H.E., All Fabric Bleach vs. Clorox 2, Meadowbrook Hand Sanitizer vs. Purell, Body Series Roll-On vs. Ban (per ounce), and a selection of FormuCare products vs. national brands. We even beat some OTC prices at Wal-Mart, but as I have said before, if they catch you doing price comparisons, they'll throw you out or have you arrested for criminal tresspass.

All I can say about Wal-Mart is that when I was there the other day at 4:30 in the morning, only two words come to mind: creepy and disgusting. The employees looked disgusting and the customers looked creepy. I don't even like the atmosphere in there, like I'm always being watched, and I probably am. For anybody that wants to compete with Wal-Mart, go for it. This is just the wrong business to do it with.

George said:
August 31, 2007 3:57 PM | #

I'd have to agree with some of the comments above... the products are very good in quality, thus the higher price, but there is a whole market of people that are more interested in price vs. quality.  That is why people continue to shop at places like Wal-Mart.  Our society is plagued with the "save, save, save" mentality.  Why do so many people choose to buy Suave shampoo at Wal-Mart vs. Redken at the salon?  Why do they buy cheap cosmetics at a discount store vs. by Clinique or Estee Lauder?  Why do they buy the local grocery store brand soup vs. Campbell's soup?  They are looking at the price and are willing to give up some quality to get that cheap price.

The premium brands offered through Quixtar are no doubt awesome brands.  The problem is that most people won't go and pay $70/ month for double X or $140 for a couple at retail prices.  Typically you have to forgo your retail profit if you want to keep long term business.  Let's face it, customers have no incentive with the compensation plan, so their only other value is price.  It would be interesting to see what makes Quixtar the leading on-line retailer of health and beauty products... are the majority of those sales to IBOs?  Are the majority of the customer sales done at retail or wholesale cost?  If you answer those questions, I think you will find the answer that customers don't want to buy at high costs, even if it is a superior product, and we need to have some products that compete in that arena or we won't ever capture the bulk of the market share.

I've always been taught that you should market to the masses vs. market to the classes.  When you market to the masses (people that are already broke and very price conscious) you have a larger sector.  When you market to the classes (the people with more cash flow to spend on premium products) you shoot yourself in the foot.

A Kline said:
August 31, 2007 4:11 PM | #

Beryl:

Another great point. You said:

"Do we figure the true cost of products from WalMart, etc?  Time, gas, wear and tear, insurance, parking lots in the rain and snow, walking to and from the car(that is a good thing) vs. point & click."

Another great example of spin (this one though I have not heard from the corp)! No we don't figure those costs into the price...that's called "shipping & handling".

I am excited about our A/Q business. I've been blessed to benefit from millions (and million and millions) of A/Q money. I'm just telling my story...since the corp is gracious enough to ask.

Nick said:
August 31, 2007 4:31 PM | #

Jeffrey,

Thanks for talking about how you did price comparison.  The purpose of my comments is NOT to justify cost over Wal-Mart.  It is to learn how Q/A does comparisons and to learn why they price items the way they do.

Who do they compare against?  Why did Q/A choose those products to compare against?  What makes our products comparable to theirs?  If the results are that we are WAY higher than the products that Q/A itself decided we should be compared to, what is the justification for the WAY higher price?

My concern is not about how "high" our prices are but about how "appropriate" our prices are.

Data first, justification second.  I don't have much experience selling (1 yr personal sales) and less experience selling Q/A products (2 sales) but it seems that knowing your products and how they fit into the existing market place is very useful information.  Q/A's cost comparisons aren't the end-all, be-all in the sense that every buyer is different and every location has different prices, but it sure helps to know how Q/A itself feels that it fits into the market place.

If Q/A doesn't provide data about who they compare prices against and what the results are, then I run the risk of making an incorrect comparison when I go to the local supermarket.  If I know what products Q/A compares against, the results, and Q/A's interpretation of the results, then I know how to respond to people correctly and appropriately.  

Rykel said:
August 31, 2007 4:35 PM | #

People, In the midst of this pricing debate, you would not believe what a Singaporean company has done...

"Purchase $5500 of my products/services and I will pay you money for the next 18 months or more until you have earned a profit or received back your full purchase cost - no MLM, no nothing. Oh, we pay you more than $900 per referral too and throw in a MLM Plan as a bonus."

I spoke to Amway management here earlier and told them that if some of the companies followed suit, very soon we would all have a "pricing" war like we have never seen before... and how do you compete against free products?

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 4:45 PM | #

Tman...Right On....Now that is experience talking!  You have to determine how cheap you are willing to sell YOURSELF!

If you go into ANY sales position with price the main issue, YOU LOSE.  The price issue is between your own ears.  Until you fix it, you will always be frustrated in sales.  There are plenty of people who teach it, but the best way is speak from your heart about what you know to be true, from personal use.  Don't listen to the "Coward Within".  When someone says "how much is it?"  Simply set it aside until you go over the features and benefits.  The customer always wants to appear intelligent, you know.

Keep the Faith

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 4:59 PM | #

kjteam,

Thanks for being honest that you slept through most of the seminars on the products.  If I had said that you would have probably taken offense.  But, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear what you are saying.  Your purpose is to create hate and discontent and I feel everyone here realizes that from your posts.

Bye the way, how much does Ray make?  I might want to take a job some day.

Shannon in California said:
August 31, 2007 5:33 PM | #

Chad, You are right, the convenience of Ditto is nice, but Quixtar doesn't corner the market as far as delivering to your door is concerned. I can have diapers and wipes delivered at my door from 1-800-diapers or Amazon and they have a subscription service too. And the diapers and wipes from the business do the job but now I get them elsewhere cheaper. My point was that Quixtar touts "quality" like a badge of honor, but I was very upset when I found out, for example, the formula wasn't the "quality" they profess. My son was allergic to the business formula, and when trying other formulas, I tried the no-brand formula from Costco, and found it to be the same manufacturer as Quixtar uses (cause it made him sick also). But it cost me $20 less than the same amount of formula from Quixtar (go look in your catalog). When a baby drinks 6-8 bottles a day, this can become expensive very fast. The business formula is actually more expensive than Similac, which is what ended up working.

My complaint is the cost! It's so overpriced to me, that I'd rather drive, or go online elsewhere, forgo the extra tiny PV I'd receive and get the same stuff cheaper. And you agree with me for about the tee-pee, paper towels, cups, food items, etc. It's a rip-off folks! There's a reason why you and I have 0 pv people in our groups! The reason is, we are driven by the "price" period. Whether Quixtar realizes it or not, American's have made Wal-Mart the #1 company in the world because it's cheaper. That obviously means something to the average public. And when I'm charged more for the same stuff that I'm told is quality, I'm maddened. So, my take is Alticor wants its outrageous "jay-factor" profit MORE than it wants to be competitive. What's wrong with wanting cheaper prices? It's wrong when it cuts into their precious 35%.

ibofightback said:
August 31, 2007 5:39 PM | #

MichMan - re "cadillac" products if I think a product is poor value, i don't buy it or promote it, simple as that. If catalogue products don't sell, the corp. either removes them or looks at adjusting the pricing. An overly obsessive "support your own store" type of thing is poor thinking and corrupt economics.

Nick - I always do my own price comparisons for my area and provide them for my group. I encourage them to do their own comparisons as well. If something is substantial uncompetitive, and there's no quality differential, well, as I said, I don't buy it and I don't promote it. And I let the corp. know about it too.

tman - great comments on adding value

kjteam - those "freetheibo" price comparisons wouldn't be on that thread that quotes an Aquasana hosted website saying Aquasana is better value then eSpring would they? And that thread wouldn't be hosted on a website managed by a PR company hired by TEAM to disparage Quixtar would it?

Yeah, that'd be independent figures. Do what I do. Learn about the products, then go do your own price comparisons.

ibofightback said:
August 31, 2007 6:26 PM | #

Shannon, assuming the "jay-factor" claims are correct, I'm pretty certain it wouldn't apply to catalogue products made by other manufacturers

m kay said:
August 31, 2007 7:15 PM | #

That was a nice realease from the corp. No they are right they are not Walmart... Yet. However this will not be fact for too much longer. The reason that Quixtar is changing the name back to Amway is as they claim, because the name outside  of North America is widely known. But that is not the entire story. What they are leaving out is their plan to go retail outside of North America in Walmart. This way they can test the market with core products at a reasonable price. In the mean time the corp will make it vertually impossible to build a business in North America by not lowering the prices and putting more and more restrictions on IBO's thus forcing the IBO's to quit. This will not happen over night but over the next eighteen months like they said from the start. It's just interesting how they left the most important part out... the part about eventually going retail in North America. Is as i'm sure is hard to imagine but let me reasure you it is in fact not only true but is already a done deal or at least close to it. Perhaps some one should ask the corp about it.

Ros said:
August 31, 2007 7:32 PM | #

Great discussion!

Product pricing is only a concern ... if you allow it to be one.

While most people will say they are very price conscious, there are many examples where each of us have purchased a product or service which we knew was priced higher then a competitive one.

Why would we do that?  Perhaps we saw more value it in, or maybe it filled another need.

Here are 3 examples:

1. Some people choose to buy a more expensive brand of gas because they believe the special additives are worth it.  (My girlfriend insists that a certain brand is better because her mechanic, who works at the service station, says it is.)  I’ve not noticed any difference in performance or mileage to say ya or nay.

2. I have several clients in my other business (consulting) where they have tried using less expensive refurbished printer cartridges instead of the higher quality, higher priced brand name cartridges.

In every case, they all threw them out (no satisfaction guarantee) and purchased the better quality, but more expensive print cartridges, which do carry a 30-day satisfaction guarantee.  (Yes I do know one person (not a client) who says she still uses the refurbished cartridges, but she says she's ok with the lower quality).

Another example with our products:

3. I have several customers who have been buying SA8 (and many other products) at full retail from me for many years.

While demonstrating the superior performance of SA8, I would explain all the unique features; concentration, a light pleasant fragrance, excellent cleaning power yet mild to delicate clothing, non-spill square box.  I would then explain how each feature would benefit them – and then I would show them the following demonstration.

- 6 baby food jars filled 3/4 with water.

- In each jar had a piece of steel wool.  (I've seen other IBOs use small nuts and bolts instead of steel wool).

- In each jar was added a tablespoon of different competing brand of laundry detergent.  (SA8, Tide, Gain, Bold, Ivory and All).

After some time (I think weeks), in each of the jars, the steel wool would rust and as in the case of Ivory – over time it completely disintegrated!

The jar with the SA8?  The steel wool never rusted, even after years of being exposed to the water.  It was still like brand new!

Note:  I NEVER say any disparaging remarks about the competitive brands, I just show the demonstration and let my customer come to their own conclusion.

What did this demonstrate?  In addition to cleaning clothes, SA8 will protect the metal parts on your clothes, your zipper etc… and it will protect your washer, giving it years of extra life – and saving you costly repair bills.

By demonstrating the superiority of just one product, I had given credibility to many more of my products for them to try.  And once they try them, they’re hooked.  They love them!  Price was never an issue after that.

Price is only an issue if you allow it to be one.  It’s what YOU choose to focus on that will make the greatest impact.

Look for the features and benefits that make your products stand out, and demonstrate how it will benefit your customers.  Use personal testimonials.

And remember, not everyone will buy everything from you.  That’s ok.  Just focus on meeting the needs that you can.  Then find other customers who you can service.  10 - 20 customers buying 10 – 30 (or more) PV worth of products each month still adds up to good retail profits and a larger bonus.

Put as many of them on Ditto as you can, run promotions, but always sell at retail (sug. Retail or above or below, you decide) – figure out how to make it work for you.

Get together with your sponsor or upline leader who has experience servicing several regular retail customers, or find someone in your group that you can team up with and start your own retail program.

Do it for at least 60-days.  Really commit to servicing X number of customers and doing a certain amount of retail PV each month.  It will work for you – if you will commit to it and follow through!

And remember, if at first you don’t succeed, keep trying … until you do succeed.

Then teach it to your group. Duplicate your success.  First Circle profitability.

You will be amazed at your results.

Wishing you success in all your retail efforts!

Focus on a balanced business - retail, personal use and building a team of successful and profitable IBOs.

With all this talk about retail, I need to walk my talk, so I am committing to getting and servicing at least 20 more customers by October 30th.  (I currently have 8 - 10 regular customers).

You Can Do IT!

Sincerely,

Ros

GirlPower said:
August 31, 2007 7:42 PM | #

Nick:

What is stopping you from comparing products yourself? It's not difficult to go to the sites for Clinique®, Lancôme®, Estée Lauder®, and Chanel®, find similar items and compare them to Artistry.

The same w/SA8. How much is a box of Tide at the grocery store... or at Walmart? How many uses will you get out of one box? Figure out how many boxes you would need to buy to equal the same amount of uses from a box of SA8 Bioquest (which beat Tide and all the other competitors, according to Consumer Reports last January)?

As a business owner it's probably a good idea to do some research for yourself from time to time.

Take care!

rdknyvr said:
August 31, 2007 7:46 PM | #

Shannon, within the Quixtar product line, there are a range of prices and "value propositions." I agree that there are products priced too high (my opinion). But there are also lots that are well priced for the value they bring to me, and many that are incredibly priced against any retail competitor. If something doesn't match your sense of value or how much you desire and are willing to pay for that level of quality, there are lots of other Quixtar products to consider.

If you truly are looking at this as a business person, there is more than enough fantastic products to run with and focus on, whether in the Health pathway or Beauty pathway.

And looking beyond, the hiring of Steve Lieberman -- if you've been following that -- was specificially to help Quixtar develop a greater range of "retail-competitive" everyday, consumable products for us to work with, in addition to the premium quality products we already have. And that's just one piece of the many positive developments coming down the line as part of the Transformation process.

Here's a question to consider: when does Warren Buffett decide to buy into a company? When the fundamentals are basically strong, but undervalued in the market due to a lack of insight by most investors. That's where the "complainers" are right now... lack of clear perception and lack of insight.

Second point that I'm sure you've heard in a seminar or training material -- Henry Ford is reputed to have said, to the effect, "Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." Absolutely applies to building this business right now.

Genuine best wishes :)

rdknyvr said:
August 31, 2007 7:49 PM | #

PS Shannon, I'm not knocking your experience with baby formula. There are other examples like that. But at the foundational level, the fundamentals for building this business are strong and sound, especially if you can focus not on the convenience products, but on the high value proposition products. I agree that there is room for improvement on the "convenience products" side. :)

rocket said:
August 31, 2007 9:27 PM | #

Interesting how you don't ever want to be like Wal-Mart.

It is the biggest retailer in history.

It strives to bring consumers value with lower prices than many of its competitors because it knows what people want.  Value for the product, not a lecture about WHY something is better for them.

The most important point, Wal-Mart guarantees satisfaction or your money back.  There's not some big ordeal you have to go through either.  You take it back to the store and get your money.  That's it.

That's why Wal-Mart has always done well, and will continue to do well with their philosophy.

Sadly, it's also their success and lack of respect for their success that ensures Amway/Quixtar's failure.

Jeff Namnum said:
August 31, 2007 9:41 PM | #

You know, I think so many IBOs that I've heard from crossline from me suffer from a business-esteem (as opposed to self-esteem) problem.

Artistry, Nutrilite and XS are TOP RATED PRODUCTS  in the marketplace.  That means that we are THE benchmark.  

Just because Coke, Pepsi and Red Bull don't call IBO's at home to congratulate them doesn't mean that their energy drink division executives don't have dart boards with  cranberry grape blast can picture pasted to it.  Esté Lauder doesn't have their counter sales people compare and contrast their products with the bargain bin lipstics at Walmart.

Does that make the Coke, Pepsi, Red Bull, or Esté brands less valuable, because they have the good sense not to acknowledge their competition? Not at all, they are first class competitors and I'm proud (personally proud, it's my business!) to stand among them.  This is not our grandad's Amway, where we ahd to defend our who-the-heck-ever-heard-of-this products.  We are today's Quixtar /Amway business owners, leaders in the world in the Health and Beauty fields, and by the way pioneers in the coveted Green Environmentally-friendly cleaners!

Be proud or be a customer.  

By the way my upline's been teaching this stuff since the dawn of time and I'm thrilled to see that quixtar U is up and teaching some of this product info.  The artistry class is top-notch, I am really impressed and pleased.  We will use it with all our new IBOs to supplement the training my upline offers (I keep saying my upline because I get the idea we're not really allowed to mention names, but if I'm wrong Quixtar folks, please let me know)

There are improvements that can be made with q/a and my loa, but all-in-all this is the best thing going.  Thanks for listening

kjteam said:
September 1, 2007 12:02 AM | #

To Beryl and Tex:  This will be my last post over here at the quixtar spin zone.  

Yes Beryl I did sleep through those very boring sessions of people who talk the talk but have never walk the walk.  Corprate ra ra on how it's my fault that I don't move products and not q's, the product or the product pricing. It's a bunch of bull.

I did not sleep, however, through the leadership and building a team part of the seminars and took great notes, and walk the walk.

All spinning aside,

I can say that right now, as it is 11:51 PM on the 31st of August.  You might or might not know the significance of this date.  

At midnight we will be Platniums.  Qualified 6 months at 7500 to do it.  Just 18 months after starting team approach with just me and 3 other couples on our team when we started.

I have walked the walk.  

Beryl, if you went Plantinum tonight, all else aside, I want to congradulate you and your family.  

You too Tex, if you went Plantinum tonight, I want to congradulate you also.  

Please post how difficult the struggle is, but, how worth it is also.  

You both are so smart and knowlegeable, I can't wait to hear your inspiring stories of your journey to these coveted pin levels.  God Bless

I'll still be over at the freetheibo.com blogs

cya

paying a big price to have ditto said:
September 1, 2007 12:31 AM | #

I agree the Quixtar core line products are top notch but the other products you can buy in Walmart or Loblaws eg:  mayo is 9.49 retail at Q in the stores is maybe 4.99 same as the large Prego 9.00 plus at Q and 4.50 or 4.99 in stores and now the dog food is double the price of any store, and because it is our business we buy the more expensive products from out self.  I have noticed how the PV keepings going down every year you need to spend more to get your 100 PV for a bonus.  The only thing able to retail is the XS and the Bars.  People who are concerned or take an active interest in their health will buy the vitamins, but the other store products how can you sell them to people at double the price or more than they are already paying for them in the store.

jthompson said:
September 1, 2007 1:46 AM | #

kjteam said:

September 1, 2007 12:02 AM | #

Congratulations!  The growth you have experienced by overcoming fears and learning to be a leaders can never be taken away from you.

educated me - what does platinum mean outside 7501 for 6 of 12 months?

ex:  the ibo teams i have been with really encourage us to pay 12 pv bonus checks with 3 major legs... so the profit ends of being over $2-$3k per month + bonuses = $50k+

What kind of structure/income does a typical team ibo have?

(not negative, i am just curious)

Emet said:
September 1, 2007 4:48 AM | #

Congratulations, KJTeam, if you're still with us.

Going Platinum is a wonderful achievement. My only question is -- what business have you gone Platinum in?

It can't be Quixtar.  Your upline has claimed that Quixtar is an illegal pyramid. They've claimed that Quixtar products are so overpriced that they can't be sold to retail customers and are only purchased by IBOs.

Apparently you agree with them.

So today, September 1, when you go out and show the plan, what are you going to tell people -- come join the illegal pyramid and buy 300 PV of stuff and pour it down the drain?  Or are you going to tell people that they can build this business by finding other intelligent, ambitious people to join them and make money on the sale of Quixtar products?

My wife and I got into the business because we were impressed by the performance of Dish Drops and LOC, and we thought that it was economical at retail and even a better deal at distributor cost.

We did price comparisons on the products we already had under the sink, and concluded that the Amway products worked better and had a cheaper cost-per-use at RETAIL than what we had been using. During our first year in the Business, we sold products to many of the gas stations, bars and restaurants within a half-mile of our apartment in Brooklyn, as well as some of the staff at the college where I was teaching economics.

We won a retailing contest, selling over 1500 PV in 4 days, by focusing on cookware, smoke detectors, and SA8.

When we went Pearl in 1980, two of our three personal Directs had been customers.  

And even though I have not been actively building the business for some time, I still sell SA8 and Dish Drops and Double X to customers who have buying the stuff from me for many years.

And our upline and our their other organizations retail far more than I do.  

We were taught: focus on the core products, not the mayonnaise and baby wipes. Become an expert on the core products that you like, and then help your customers solve their problems.  Don't try to sell them Glister if they already love the toothpaste that they are using.  

But I'm sure you already know that.

I first met Dex in the early seventies and at that time he was teaching that you should be paying out 12 to 15 bonus checks when you go Direct -- or Platinum, in today's parlance.  And the Yagers are still saying the same thing today, more than thirty years later.

I know that it's none of my business, but how many bonus checks are you paying out?  

If I had a different vision about this business and I disagreed with the direction that it was going and wanted to change my own direction, I would go to my many friends in the business, including my upline and downline,  and I would tell them that while I wish them success,  I wanted to do things differently and would be moving on.  I don't think that I would call them fools and liars.  I wouldn't have to since I would be confident that I could quickly build a new organization from scratch, following my improved plan, and marketing my more realistically priced products.

Most people of integrity don't need a confidentiality agreement or a non-compete agreement to know what is the right thing to do -- do they?  

Canadian IBO said:
September 1, 2007 4:50 AM | #

Well the September 1st deadline is upon us and I can't wait to see what Q/A transformation will bring our way.  To all those people concerned about the priceing, you have to do your due diligence and treat this BUSINESS LIKE A BUSINESS!.  Do your own price comparisons if you need to, so you can tell your customers when you demonstrate the products.  I won't be nieve enough to say that all our prices are the best prices out there, but there are lots that are the best. even without getting into the quality and personal service issues.

     I have a daughter who works for a Canadian Grocery Chain and when I go and pick her up from work and she is not ready I will casually stroll through the store and do a few comparisons myself.

The other day I checked out CASHMERE  ULTRA toilet paper against our MEADOWBROOK.  Their's was 3-ply, 240 sheets per roll. (a very high quality paper) at $7.50 for 8 pk. (Just under .94 each) .  Now our brand is 3-ply, 264 sheets per roll (24 sheets per roll more= just over 4 more rolls per case). At full retail from our business it is just over .90 per roll!!!(I hope my math is right)  I'm sure some blogger will check it.  

        Anyways to NIK due your homework, learn about the products, do your own price comparisons (it's fun), learn some quick easy demos and you will be fine...Good luck retailing and remember the 10 customer rule!!!

Ros said:
September 1, 2007 7:25 AM | #

Kjteam,

Congratulations on achieving Platinum!  That’s a great accomplishment in only 18 months!

I’m not Silver yet, but I'm working on it!  So I’m very impressed that you were able to do that in just 18 months and hold it for 6 months straight!  Way to go!

I know going Silver (7500PV) with multiple legs (teams) using the 6-4-2 method, for 6 consecutive months would qualify you as a Platinum (provided you always have an additional 2500PV (or more) side volume over anyone you sponsored below you, who also reached 7500PV in the same month).

But using the vertical approach that the Team organization uses (as I understand it) of 1 leg (or team) of at least 7500PV, AND having a second leg/team (side volume) of at least 2500PV for each of those same qualifying months, and holding that volume for 6 consecutive months.  (I think that’s how it works in the Team organization).  That too is a great accomplishment!  Wow! That is awesome!  Great job!

About meetings … my personal observation about meetings is, (be they product, sales, leadership or business structure oriented), I get out of them what I want to.  If you thought it was applicable to you, then you probably paid attention and found some very useful information, if not, then yes, you probably found it boring.  But if you’re going to be there, why not try to learn something useful?

I believe (granted, I’m not a Silver or Platinum yet) that each of these areas are important and very critical to building a balanced and profitable business long term.  (Personal retail sales, personal use and building a team of profitable IBOs).

Kjteam, I was very surprised by your comments about Ray.  I would have hoped as a leader and new Platinum, you would show him more respect, whether you agreed with him or not.  Especially since some of the IBOs in your downline may be reading this.  We all lead by example.

I can’t say I share your opinion about Ray and what he said.  I believe Ray is absolutely correct, totally up front and honest.  I also believe we have a very exciting (and yes), marketable product line.  I personally retail core line products at full retail price to my customers.  No, I don’t have a lot of customers, (about 10 regulars), but I am successful at selling and servicing them.

I don’t mean you any disrespect or diminish your accomplishments, but I do feel you owe Ray an apology.

Again, congratulations on qualifying Platinum!

Sincerely,

Ros

Tex said:
September 1, 2007 8:45 AM | #

rocket,

You don't have to displace the biggest retailer in history to be successful.

Some people want the lowest price, others want quality, convenience, and an opportunity to make some money.

What "big ordeal" are you talking about? You ship it back with a preprinted return label, Quixtar pays postage both ways. Walmart would have to come out to your house and return your gas money you used when you bought the item to equal that level of service.

I hope Walmart continues to do well. I buy items there that do not have a quality advantage through Quixtar, do not have high PV/BV, and are expensive compared to Walmart. That still leaves me plenty of products to buy and sell through Quixtar.

If we were competitors, you'd have a point about Walmart causing Quixtar's failure, but we're not.

I suggest you read the original post again.

Ros said:
September 1, 2007 8:58 AM | #

Hi ibofightback,

Yes I agree, we all need to do a much better job at increasing our product knowledge.  Retailing is then much easier, more profitable and fun!

Checkout the QuixtarUniversity.com - as of 12 AM this morning it’s now up and running!  And it looks very promising.

I also agree with your other statement … “An overly obsessive "support your own store" type of thing is poor thinking and corrupt economics.”   And I might add, it doesn’t make for a profitable business if there aren’t retail sales to actual (non-IBO) customers to support it.

Price comparisons are helpful, but I believe personal testimonials and actual product knowledge are better, which I believe was your main point.

Appreciate all your great comments and your website too.   Keep up the great work!

Best wishes,

Ros

ibofightback said:
September 1, 2007 9:27 AM | #

kjteam - congrats on platinum. When I said "we run seminars", I was talking about *we* as in our LOA. We have IBOs who are health experts teach about Nutrilite. We have IBOs who are cosmetics experts teach about Artistry. We have IBOs who are water experts teach about eSpring. etc etc etc.

It's being taught by experts in their fields who are also "walking the walk" as IBOs.

Ros said:
September 1, 2007 9:40 AM | #

Hi tommy tucker,

I can’t say I agree with your example of comparing Quixtar with Walmart vs Ben Franklin (which I used to love when I was growing up) and BigK.

The later three are all discount retail store business models.  Quixtar isn’t.

As Ray so eloquently said … “In fact, we respect their [Walmart] obviously successful business model. It's just not our business and it never will be. That is the point of this post.”

It would be like comparing Walmart’s business model to Nordstrom, or Saks 5th Avenue (now that’s funny!).  They’re not even in the same league!  They have completely different approaches and focus.  You’re comparing apples to oranges, or should I say bananas?

Yes, Walmart is very successful at what they do.  Just as we are.

Aside from the obviously very different ways we approach our businesses, the other major difference I see is who (and how many) receive benefits from the business ownership.

Walmart -

The Walton family created a business where people (employees) could get a good job, earn a good income, have a sense of belonging and community, but unfortunately don’t offer much control over their time or how fast they can be promoted or increase their income.

Do most employees rise to become managers?  No, of course not.  Some never aspire to, while those that do, can only move up as quickly as positions are made available, and then only where the company says.  I can hear it now ...

“Good morning Walmart employees!  I’ve got some exciting news!  We have a new opening for an assistant department manager in our new store in Digipuke, Iowa.  This is a great opportunity for the right person.  Anyone interested in transferring?  Anyone?  Is anyone listening?  It’s, a… a… really it’s a great place to live, and they have, er a …”

Business ownership?  Not available to Walmart employees, unless of course you last name starts with “Wal” and ends with “ton” or you marry someone who’s last name does.  Oh, but they may offer stock options (if available).  And of course, the Walton’s (rightly so) deserve their profits for providing so many people employment.

Quixtar –

The DeVos and Van Andel families created a business where people (IBOs) could have true business ownership and all that encompasses it.  Control over their time, a sense of belonging and community, build their businesses as slow or fast, and as profitable as “they” choose.

Do most IBOs become Platinums, Emeralds or Diamonds?  No, of course not.  Some never aspire to or aren’t willing to do the work required.  While those that do wish to achieve these levels, can do so anytime they wish, anywhere they want, (even in Digipuke, Iowa, if there is even such a place).

Just check the latest Achieve magazine, people from all walks of life, from every city, town and state.

The IBO decides their own futures, and if they choose to retire early, they can.  They can sell their businesses, pass it on to their heirs or whatever they choose.

Both Quixtar and Walmart are great companies, both are very successful.  Both provide income and opportunity for many.  It just depends on what you’re looking for as to which you would want to be a part of.

A final note,

You and I as IBOs should be focused on which business model will help us achieve our goals, and not worry so much about how large one business is, or how wealthy it’s founding families are, unless your last name is DeVos or Van Andel or Walton.

Thanks, that's my view on it!

Ros

Shannon in CA said:
September 1, 2007 12:38 PM | #

Congrats KJ. What an accomplishment! My hat is off to ya! So sorry it's in such rotten conditions.

GirlPower said:
September 1, 2007 1:16 PM | #
If people weren't interested in paying more for high-end products there wouldn't be a slew of cosmetics counters in department stores. And Sephora would go out of business. Those who are fine w/cheap crap will continue to buy Cover Girl and Wet & Wild at Walmart. I would never attempt to sell Artistry to the same crowd who would buy Avon. But I would approach my friends who purchase quality. It's important to know your buyers.
Ros said:
September 1, 2007 1:36 PM | #

Hi Emet,

Thanks for sharing your story and lessons of life with us.  I enjoyed it.

Great story, great advice, great leader!

Cheers,

Ros

Jeffrey said:
September 2, 2007 12:45 AM | #
Digipuke, Iowa? That must be near Analogbarf, Wisconsin. You know Wisconsin, the state that loves the Amway business so much, NOT.
Jumping Jeffery said:
September 2, 2007 9:57 AM | #

Some just don't get it.  From wat I have read, what the TEAM would like to do is become the next Wal-Mart.  The TEAM has the business model to do it.  If Q* doesn't want to be a part of that, fine...

THEN LET THEM GO!!  

If they are not competitors, then there is no worrys about TEAM taking away any Quixtar sales right??!!

Quixtar has totally lost all my support, especially when they called IBO's property.  Apparently they are deaf also, or just plain stupid, 'cause they just don't get it!

Rich B said:
September 2, 2007 11:24 PM | #

This is all great and all but I'd like to point out something to you all. Walmart and Target Have entered the world of Network Marketing and MLM. They have partnered up with one of Quixtar's competitors. Market America. At first I didn't believe it but if you check out their site you'll see them listed as partner stores, joint venture or affiliate partners with Market America. I'm not sure how their distributors get paid for shopping thru their website. But non the less. Quixtar needs to wake up and realize that a self consumtion business model where we promote overpriced products in order to receive a bonus check is one unethical, and that's coming from someone who has no problem with making a profit, or even making a profit off the tool system, but look at our target market, price is an issue. The founding families just need to stop lining their pockets with cash or let their people go. oh excuse me I mean their "property" so much for being an INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OWNER!

rdknyvr said:
September 3, 2007 10:34 AM | #

In addition to Rich B's comment, a few weeks ago in the Internet Retailer email update, it was noted that Walmart is now supporting online ordering with local pickup at the nearest Walmart within three days, and thus zero shipping. So yes, that is a real potential challenge, but it can also be a benefit in that it further assists the marketplace is getting accustomed to ordering products online. The advantage we bring is when we come along with unique, high quality/value, potentially life-changing products that we can market to that same customer.

As Rich B and many others have pointed out -- including the IBOAI Board members who STAYED on the Board, we do need to have a broader range of "retail competitive" products to build more of the consumer's budget. The reason I have confidence over the longer term in Quixtar management (inspite of some of their acknowledged mistakes) relates to the hiring of Steve Lieberman as our new president, specifically to guide development of Quixtar's "retail competitive" expansion.

Nevertheless, combined with that, we as IBOs need to commit to better learning how to sell the unique performance high value products we already have (for me, it's Nutrilite). To use the Henry Ford quote, "Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right." And that's also where Quixtar U comes in... if you haven't checked that out yet, put it next on your agenda. It's an excellent "first edition" and is designed for continual improvements.

But to go back to Rich B's comment -- yes, there is a danger from Walmart and others and we can't pretend it's not there merely by saying "that's not our business model," and "we don't want to be Walmart." The old business models aren't the same anymore -- everything is "fluid" and we need to consider that going forward.

However, Rich B, I respectfully don't agree with your last two lines. :)

amazed said:
September 3, 2007 11:41 AM | #

So, Alticor doesn't want to be Wal-Mart... that is great... I would hate to think that Alticor would even consider themselves competition against P&G or something, oh... they do. Sorry that I don't fall for propaganda, but Wal-Mart is the leading retail chain in the US, and for a retail company to not have that as their goal, oh yeah, Quixtar isn't a retail company, it is a "self-consumption" model... nevermind.

rdknyvr said:
September 3, 2007 3:20 PM | #

APPLE PARTNER STORE?

Ray, what would it take to get an Apple as one of our Partner Stores? The company I work for has an arrangement like this with Apple for its employees -- there are about 28,000 of us around the world. It gives us about a 15% discount off the Apple retail store prices, and on certain days of the year, there is a much deeper one-day discount available. The iPhone isn't in our store, but just about everything else is.

With appreciation,

rdknyvr said:
September 3, 2007 3:26 PM | #

Amazed, you make good points, ie. the "self-consumption" model point, except for the fact that Quixtar/Alticor announced last May sometime that it is radically changing the way it looks at IBOs -- changing from the customer mind-set to treating IBOs like the independent business owner "sales force" we are. I realize that some critics, including some TEAM people, are locked down on their views, but some (many, actually) of the otherwise worth-listening-to concerns you and others raise, are very much in the process of being changed. Is it possible for you to acknowledge that, give some credit where due, even if the change isn't enough to satisfy you totally? Just a thought. :)

YankeeIBO said:
September 3, 2007 4:14 PM | #

Okay--I don't know who came up with the ridiculous notion that we have to compete with Wal-Mart to survive, but let's think about it, beyond the "It's all about Price" mantra we keep hearing (mostly) from the TEAM contingent:

1. Wal-Mart already HAS an online ordering system for most of their product line--not all. Why does the world need another one? The people who aren't using that service, now, are unlikely to use a similar one.

2. Wal-mart charges the same price online as it does in the stores--why don't they give a discount for online purchases, since they don't have the overhead involved with brick and mortar stores? Their might be a profit motive in there, somewhere. After all, this is the same organization that made its employees work through breaks without pay, AND had an unwritten policy of working their folks to just under full-time hours so they wouldn't have to pay them any benefits--now don't you feel good about those low prices?

3. WM didn't get where it is because of price--even though that was one of Walton's main areas of focus, it wasn't the only one. They were the store that supported the American worker by buying only American-made products--until the American companies either dried up because they couldn't operate on the profit levels the WM deals left them with, or because WM went to China looking for cheaper products because it was the only way he could compete in the downward-spiraling price wars--OR get the merchandise he wanted. Try finding a pair of sneakers made in the US.

4. WM also maintained a broader product inventory than anyplace before him--creating the one-stop shop. Convenience and location are more important than price to the people who wo go there--K-Mart could beat them on price for like items, but they didn't offer everything that WM does. So what is the advantage to buying Wal-Mart-type items online, if you are going there anyway to get stuff you can't get online--where is the "hook" that would convince the WM shopper to buy similar product at similar price from you, online, instead of just throwing it in the cart on their next trip for groceries to Super WM??

5. Let's talk about expenses. Many think that the expense of multiple retail locations could be wiped out by doing business online. The reality is that all that expense would be transferred to warehouse locations and order-processing centers that would need to be created to handle the orders and deliveries. Just coordinating with UPS is a huge undertaking, requiring LOTS of software, hardware, and man-hours to make and meet delivery schedules. I know what it takes to take, process, pull, check orders for delivery in a $200 mil distribution center--the thought of what Quixtar/Amway deals with boggles my mind! All those people who pull stuff off delivery trucks and stack them on shelves become order pickers who pull things out of slots to fill orders--at a much higher rate of pay, as well as higher equipment expenditures. I don't see much savings, here.

Lastly, you only excel in business when you can:

a) provide a unique product that fills a need in the market place;

b) Take something that's already being done and do it better--to fill a need in the marketplace; or

c) supply a product or service with added value that answers a desire that fills a need in the marketplace.

Us trying to compete with Wal-Mart--who already excels in their niche--would be a fool's game, to say the least! There are plenty of people who buy Longaberger and Tupperware, and pay a lot more for it than they would for similar items they could buy at Wal-Mart--why do you think that is?

When you know the answer to that question, you will know why we will NEVER compare ourselves to Wal-Mart, or any other discount house--and why we can sell our products successfully. I think all the new customers I believe we are seeing from the Team Nutrilite website speaks volumes in that regard!

Jeffrey said:
September 4, 2007 5:42 AM | #

I just saw the new Simply Nutrilite product line. It looks good except for one thing: The drink cans are available only in a case of 12. Do you guys in marketing ever read these blogs? We DO NOT want to buy products in case lots. Let me re-phrase that: WE DO NOT WANT TO BUY PRODUCTS IN CASE LOTS.

A Kline said:
September 4, 2007 12:25 PM | #

Simply incredible.

Way to go Q on the Simply Nutrilite line. We don't want cheap crap...we want products that are quality, look good, have fair market value, and are "simple" to promote.

You are listening and taking action.

Thank you.

jthompson said:
September 4, 2007 2:23 PM | #

Jeffrey,  

Most ibos like DO WANT TO BUY IN CASE LOTS.  Let me re-phrase that, we DO WANT TO BUY IN CASE LOTS.

Thanks Quixtar.  Simply Nutrilite is a great Alternitive to XS... similar type products but are NATURAL w/o sucralose, etc....   Now we have products not just for 90% of the market, but all 100%.  Great Job!

_________________

Walmart does not manufactor/create any products.

Quixtar does make patented innovative products.

I don't want to be Walmart

Beryl Nichols said:
September 4, 2007 4:16 PM | #

Jeffrey,

When you say "WE", surely you are speaking for yourself and that should be written "I".  Personally, I always buy drinks by the case, usually 24.

Drink one, spill one, sample one, give one away and your done, unless you buy by the case.

We are not talking SA-8 which lasts 3-4 months.

UP UR PV  Jeffrey  Buy in case lots!

Beryl Nichols said:
September 4, 2007 4:39 PM | #

Amazed,

Propaganda this is not.  But, Quixtar/Amway IBO's are in the Direct Selling Business.  Our business is done at the kitchen table with friends, relatives, neighbors or strangers if you have none of the first three.  We are not retailers, as the name implys, and never have been.  We do, however, have a suggested retail price.

Maybe you should go upline to find out what you are involved in.  Good luck

jthompson said:
September 4, 2007 5:05 PM | #

Walmart pricing -

Quixtar - Price + 180 day moneyback guarantee and they pay shipping + personal relationships with upline/ibo retailer + outstanding customer support 800-253-6500 and quick response time + patented top-notch products + for ibos support your own business

Walmart - Price + waiting in LONG lines + not getting a thank you note or commission for shopping + no referral fee + poor customer service + gas money + most employees don't really care about you on a personal basis like your independent business owner cares about you and appreciates your business

Cosidering Price/Cost, convenience, value, buying experience, customer services.... and the fact that walmart won't pay for my kids colllege education but quixtar will..... i think i will stick with Quixtar.

GirlPower said:
September 4, 2007 8:19 PM | #

Jeffrey,

XS is only available in a case of 12 as well.

Are you seriously interested in paying shipping to order just one can? That's beyond believable. Especially when you have to wait for delivery. It's not like running to the gas station and grabbing one can of (grossly over-priced) Red Bull.

Take care!

Josh said:
September 5, 2007 12:00 AM | #

Well for those who are dedicated IBOs and are really serious about building your business, if you find yourself at Wal-Mart, remember this saying as you walk out with products in hand that you could have bought at your own business.

"Thank you for supporting the goals, dreams, and ambitions of the Walton family and not your own!"

Last time I was at Wal Mart I had to leave because it made me feel nausiated (SP?).  I left with purchasing nothing.  Worked well for me!

Jeffrey said:
September 5, 2007 12:10 AM | #

Yeah, I'm going to place an order for one can of drink. Umm, not.

Go to the store and buy 15 different things. Get up to the checkout line and have them tell you that 10 of the items are available only in case lots. Let's see how fast you go for the door.

Marketing department, you have my phone number. Call me. I'll explain this to you.

Beryl Nichols said:
September 5, 2007 3:25 PM | #

Jeffrey,

You don't get it do you?  We are simply talking XS & Nutrilite drinks, and that is ALL, nothing else.

You remind me of a client I had years ago.  I quoted him the price of a box of SA-8.  He said "hey, man that's too expensive."  I can buy 10 cans of beans for the same amount!

And the "folly" of the Marketing Dept of a 50 year old company operating in and delivering product to every city in every state in the U.S. in addition to 80 foreign countries, having a need to call YOU for advice, on anything is a real stretch.     [Edited: slightly over the top, Beryl.  ;-)     RL ]

C'mon Jeffrey, you're just trying a little levity on us right?  If you are serious, put in an application.  They could probably put your considerable intelligence to work.

rdknyvr said:
September 5, 2007 6:41 PM | #

Beryl, your intentions are good, but Jeffrey is an honest and forthright contributor to the blogging community here... he's out there learning and sharing with the rest of us what works for him, what's bugging him from time to time, and where he's winning, and I've learned a number of good things from his posts... so he deserves a bit more respect.

I'm sure he can hold his own and speak for himself, but he is one of the good guys. He is also face-to-face personally acquainted with some of Quixtar's marketing and communication people, so he kind of has the right to speak his mind to them, they understand where he's coming from.

With appreciation and respect for you, and all your great posts, too,

Jeffrey said:
September 5, 2007 8:24 PM | #

No, Beryl, I guess I don't get it. What's it like to be perfect? I wouldn't know.

Jeffrey said:
September 5, 2007 10:45 PM | #

Beryl, I guess I wasn't finished with my post. Why don't you pay two jerk lawyers $175 an hour for two solid years only to lose your case? Then let's talk about a limited budget. Some of us are working stiffs that work our rear ends off and still have no jack. I''m not talking about SA8 vs. Brand-X. I'm talking about wanting to be loyal. Now, today, try to make a customer receipt at retail and tech support says it can't figure out why the wholesale price won't go away and they don't have a specific time line to get it fixed. Huh? It took a half hour of me haggling with customer support to find that out. In the meantime, have your upline Diamond destroy your group by his blantant lies because you refuse to be a part of his tool scam (or is that $cam) that he's still running. The people that go Diamond >>honestly<< in this business deserve more than a Diamond pin. They deserve the freaking Purple Heart. Hey, AMWAY, just sell the stuff in 2 or 4-packs and quit being belligerent about it. I've tried to be nice, but nice doesn't get it anymore. I'm outa here. I ain't got time for this. And I DO get it.

Jeffrey said:
September 6, 2007 5:53 AM | #

I apologize for popping a cork again. I have hissy-fits because I care. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be here. I've been in the business a long time. I've gone Silver Producer once. After my mother-in-law had problems with her sponsor, she was allowed to transfer to me so now I sponsor my original sponsor.

(...) It's pretty bad when I cannot even make a receipt without registering the customer or the customer volume won't count. Some customers don't want to be registered. They want to call me and have me drop it off. Now, they have to be registered because self-reporting no longer exists (..). It's sad. I fight for this business because I believe in it. I also fight for the underdog; the guy that is struggling to pay the bills, struggling to build this business, and struggling to be loyal. Contrary to what the politicians say, most people in this country make eleven bucks an hour.

This was the month that I was going to go over 7500 PV again. I am having a real tough time, but I'm going to keep trying. I've already done $334 retail. It would just be nice if some of the stuff was in a more convenient quantity. That's all. Another part of my problem is that I deal with things better than I deal with people. I keep working on it, though.

Thanks, rdknyvr and Bridgett for your excellent posts. I appreciate them very much. I'm going to take a couple days off, but I'll be back. Because I care. A lot.

Editor's Note by Katie Pearsall:
This comment has been edited in order to adhere to our civil discourse policy and avoid making personal attacks.

Nick Kobelja said:
September 6, 2007 8:34 AM | #

Jeffrey's posts resonate with me.  I don't have retail experience.  I've lived in a cubicle my whole life.  I'm on a limited budget.  I have an upline that I, quite frankly, don't trust to help me.  I'm figuring all this out with little help and support.

One thing that I hear over and over is to know your products by trying them.  For folks on limited budgets, dropping half your 'wiggle-room' budget on a case of one product just to try it just isn't reasonable.  Even if I return the rest if I don't like it.

Now lets talk about customers.  I have one customer who likes using the web-store to make her purchases.  She bought paper towels and remarked to me just how much space is taken up in her house by that one case of paper towels.  The same can be said about juice.  I know I don't have a huge kitchen with a huge pantry.

Buying a case and using the remainder as samples is a valid point.  Buying a case and returning the rest is also a valid point - I refuse to purchase products from Quixtar if I or my family don't like them (there have been a couple).

But I also think that Jeffrey has a valid point about reducing the case size.  Or at least offering two different case sizes.  It can't hurt and it can only help.

Black King said:
September 6, 2007 10:11 AM | #

The issue is not the quality of the products.  Its the pricing.  I am a young IBO fresh out of college.  I have a job and have set budgets for things.  The issue is that when I got to buy things from quixtar in support of my own business, I can't because they are priced so high.  This business opportunity seems to be for those who have a established income of at least 40-50 thousand a year.  I like the XS drinks, but I am sorry $20 a case is far to much.  Thats $2 dollars a can.  What is stopping me from walking into Walmart and using that same $2 to buy a case of pepsi.  I am a TEAM IBO and am proud to be.  The leaders of our organization are just looking for good prices and correction to the arbitration agreement.  Nothing more and Nothing Less.

And might I note the level of professionalism that the TEAM IBO's have.  Many of the comments made of this blog are very defaming and destructive.  Just and observation.

Bridgett said:
September 6, 2007 2:09 PM | #

Regarding "cases" for CORE line (forget the paper towels):

It appears the issue is about the liquids, the drinks. And I guess my thought is, I don't view them as "cases". There are 9, 10, or 16 units in the boxes of bars.

So I guess that's why I don't think a 12-pack of drinks is that extraordinary. The 24-pack of the Sports Drink may be a bit high for some.

Bridgett said:
September 6, 2007 2:11 PM | #

Here's another thought: Shipping liquid, which is very heavy, is expensive. And shipping out a 4-pack wouldn't cost 1/6 the price as shipping out a 24-pack. It would cost much more. Go to UPS, FedEx Ground, USPS, and play with the numbers and you'll see just how expensive shipping is.

That's why I'm excited about the new SimplyNutrilite twist tubes. Reasonably priced. Why? Because they don't cost an arm-and-a-leg to ship.

The new SN juices are $2.50 for an 8-ounce can.

You KNOW that the Corp needs to cover the extra shipping costs for those heavy liquid products.

The twist tubes (that you add to 16 ounces of your own liquid) are 55 cents. One of the tubes--the Tropical Sport, could be used like the XS Sport Drink. 55 cents vs $1.25

XS Energy Drink in a can vs the syrup is another example. The can is $2 for 8 oz, and the syrup (1 oz that you add to 7 oz your own liquid) is 70 cents.

I’m excited that the Corp offers variety. Some people like things that are pre-made and are willing to pay the higher price for it. Others like to save some money and are okay with going through the extra step of adding their own liquid (hmmm, like our cleaning products).

:-)

Josh said:
September 6, 2007 5:56 PM | #

Black King,

First, congratulations on being an IBO just out of college.

Second, you need to compare apples to apples!  You can not compare a can of Pepsi to a can of XS.  It is an entirely different beverage.  You need to compare Red Bull, Monster, Amp, etc.  Which will cost you around the same price.  Bridgett does a great cost description of other options, take a look.

People can build this business on a shoe string budget, even today.  You just need to prioritize your spending.  If you truly want to build a business and not a hobby you will probably have to sacrifice some stuff you don't always need.

Examples.

1) Cable TV, or TV altogether

2) Drinking alcohol

3) Going out to eat

4) Smoking

5) Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, etc.

6) Sports leagues (you pay for)

7) Gym memberships (you pay for)

If you are truly building a business and not hobby, this kind of stuff is luxury, and could easily fund your business and more until you make it profitable.  Again, if you are building a business, not a hobby!

Nick Kobelja said:
September 6, 2007 10:02 PM | #

Bridget,

As usual, you have helped put things in perspective for me.  I didn't think of the differences in shipping - I should have known there was a good reason.

I do, however, still have a concern about case sizes as far as a customer experience is concerned.  If a customer likes using the web to shop and likes having it directly fulfilled (man, talk about convenience!), why should she have to use the web for one set of items and call me directly for the other?  It makes the convenience factor go down.

This is a comment about case sizes but perhaps it's also a comment about the role of the website in a direct sales environment.

Anywho, just food for thought.

Vlad said:
September 7, 2007 3:16 PM | #

I used to buy at WalMart the Personna Matrix3 razor and cartridges for it - at WalMart they are almost 2 times cheaper than at Quixtar.com

jthompson said:
September 7, 2007 4:11 PM | #

Vlad/razors -

Will Walmart send you on a $50,000 trip to Peter Island with their profits from your business with them?

Will Walmart give you a return 180 days after purchase and pay for your shipping?

Will Walmart pay you if you refer someone else to Walmart?

Will Walmart give you customer service like your upline IBO?

When you buy razor at Walmart, you are buying from your Competitor, funding the richest family in the World.

When you buy from Quixtar and build a Q business, you are funding your wife's and familys dreams.

(sounds like i am trying to jump on ya!  :)  i am just adding a few other criteria to consider, not price alone)

Beryl Nichols said:
September 7, 2007 7:30 PM | #

Jeffrey,

Sorry guy, My wife says I can clear a room in exactly 12 minutes!!  Words are powerful and they are impossible to take back.  If I could get them back, they would be pretty tough to swallow.  I clearly need to be more understanding of other peoples circumstances

Again, my apologies (only because you are one of the "good guys"!)

P.S.  Rdknyvr, Thanks for waking me up!!

rdknyvr said:
September 7, 2007 9:54 PM | #
Beryl, :) lol, no worries. All "good guys," in the most inclusive sense of the word.
Nick Kobelja said:
September 8, 2007 12:30 PM | #
I have a question. How does one report a sale on a jug of juice if it's only sold by the case? Isn't it against the rules to repackage products?
Josh said:
September 8, 2007 11:25 PM | #

Nick,

You can sell a jug of juice, and report it accordingly.  Do the math of PV/BV per jug and then report it as you sell it.

Jeffrey said:
September 9, 2007 12:04 PM | #

Nick, you can't. I've asked the tech people to fix it so we can break up case lots on the receipts but I don't think they're going to do it. And you can no longer self-report any customer that is not registered. It's too bad that people like the Team leaders had to goof it up for everybody.

Aron Gannon said:
September 9, 2007 11:52 PM | #

I've seen two postings on the Alticor blog where the authors are saying that Amway has this deal with Walmart in the works.  One guy said that in five years Nutrilite Ocean Essentials will be on the Walmart shelves with the rest of the brands Walmart sells.  He also said Amway is already doing this with Oxyclean.   Are these comments from disgruntled TEAM affiliates trying to scare people?  These comments are so outlandish that I was wondering why the moderator didn't include a note of clarification with the posts, especially since they were stated as fact, not opinion.  That's the kind of thing that makes blogging a bummer.  You have scan through a lot ridiculous banter to find something that you can use or relate to.

rdknyvr said:
September 10, 2007 10:10 AM | #

Aron, the suggestion that Alticor has a deal in the works with Walmart is from a disgruntled TEAM person. Alticor does have a company called Allan James Group which was purchased about a year ago by Interleukin Genetics. AJG was marketing its products --  a few "OTCeuticals" (over the counter nutriceuticals) through the retail pharmaceutical chains (Walgrens, etc.) and discount chain channels. I don't sense that's a focus right now.

As for Oxyclean, Access Business Group (the manufacturing "unit" of Alticor) does use "excess plant capacity" to do third party contract manufacturing for other companies including cleaning products and cosmetics, using the formulas of those companies. It's not our product being sold under other brand names (and if it is, Alticor is 'dead man walking'). :)

As for Ocean Essentials, our Omega 3's are sourced from Ocean Nutritionals Canada which has a patented distillation process for producing pure omega 3's from marine sources. We do not have an exclusive on ONC (although we do have exclusivity use of our BRAND name 'Ocean Essentials'), and the identical ONC-produced omega 3's are sold in a variety of retail outlets, from Walmart, Costco, etc., as well as some other networking companies (Shaklee for example). At other retail outlets, you can typically find OCN-sourced omega 3's selling for 20-30% of the Quixtar/Amway price, something that needs to be fixed. Quixtar marketing people claim that "it's a different formula" but in reality it's the identical molecular product.

ONC is the #1 manufacturer world wide of omega 3's. Anything that says "Meg 3" or says "molecular distillation" process in the small print on the side is from ONC, just like our Ocean Essentials.

Aron Gannon said:
September 11, 2007 12:28 AM | #

rdknyvr,

Wow, you've got access to some serious details!  That's a compliment.  You've become one of my favorite blogging partners.  Thank you!  If I've got time maybe I'll talk to you sometime on the www.thetruthaboutamay.com blog.  I've seen you post there as well.  I just recently found that site when YankeeIBO posted one of my comments from the OZ blog there.  Am I famous now?  Just kidding.

Beryl Nichols said:
September 11, 2007 6:15 PM | #

The reason the plants have open production days is because WE have been sitting on our halfmoons and sucking our thumbs and not buying and selling.  Well, as Nancy Dornan used to say, "we need to perform a few radical thumbectomies and get out there and sell something.

pvbvguy said:
September 12, 2007 1:48 AM | #

You know the title of this post is; Not Walmart and Never Want to Be.  I don't know why some of the bloggers are obsessed with Walmart.  Their model is nothing like ours.

Our products are the highest quality you can find.  Our products are made in America (hallelujah)!  We are able to merchandise the product or buy it at wholesale for ourselves.  We get paid back for building all types of product volume.

Have some of the claims about the products being too high priced had some validity?  A-Absolutely!!!  Is Quixtar doing something about it?  A-Absolutely!!!

I just got my first order of the Simply Nutrilite line.  All I can say is WOW!  The twist tubes and multi-vitamin packs for men and women are fabulous.  The bars are organic and taste great and the juice seems to be about as good as I've ever seen as far as a quality juice product.

The new Artistry Essentials line is coming in November and my upline has said they have some even better products that will be coming in the future.  

The new Simply Nutrilite line has a great price point and a great profit margin for the IBO to sell.  My upline says that Artistry Essentials will be the same.

If this is an indication of the direction Quixtar is going then I am glad I am along for the ride.  

Those of you that obsess over Walmart, get over it.  We are not in the same business they are in and there is no way to get there.  We need to take what we are good at and run with it.

I believe that Quixtar is finally getting it right and I think the team guys who jumped ship had the worst timing imaginable.  If these guys were on the board, didn't they know these new products were coming?  I'm sure the board was involved in the development of the new product direction.  All I can say is go IBOAI and Quixtar; give us more of what you're doing and this thing is going to rock.

This new product direction is one of the smartest things this company has ever done and combine that with the new money in this plan and there has never been a better time to build this business.

I plan to be blogging less and spending more time building this really great opportunity that seems to be getting better every day!

YankeeIBO said:
September 12, 2007 6:53 PM | #

TEAM leaders did not WANT to retail--it slows down the stacking process. The new rule requiring 3 retail customers in the first 90 days would mean the TEAM leaders would actually have to teach (learn) how to develop a retail clientele.

What Orrin and Chris did was devise a way to use Q*'s rules against them. Up until now, there was no minimum customer number required, just volume--and all the bonuses are based on volume. So, they decided that if IBO's supplied the volume, and they supplied the IBO's, everyone would be happy, because the lower men on the totem pole could get discounts on their purchases, and the platinums and above get leadership bonuses, AND a piece of the fat BSM purse being created by the massive downline legs--the "salary" the non-pins pay to the upper echelons. Sounds like a pyramid to me.......

In the real Q* plan, people in your downline can make more than you--if the extreme TEAM method was strictly adhered to, that could never happen.

Beryl Nichols said:
September 13, 2007 2:50 PM | #

The most humbling part of the business to me is the effort we put into listening to and justifying the statements and beliefs of the "greenies".  They seem to prioritize their purchases on the basis of price FIRST and seem to be skeptical about the pricing on specialized A/Q products.  They end up at WalMart looking for a better price on a "similar"products and in turn miss the whole point of being an IBO in the first place.  Bye the way, we have some "greenies" that have been around many years.

I went into a WalMart store yesterday and bought my perscriptions for generic drugs.  Their price: $4.00.  My co-pay with my insurance HMO: $15.00 generic.  

That is the good side to volume purchasing.  And I made money by letting them keep mymoney forever.

Dont try that with A/Q manufactured products.  It will NEVER work!!

Keep the Faith!!

Michael Hart said:
September 13, 2007 9:44 PM | #

Hello everyone,

Concerning pricing, I believe Quixtar should be positioned more as a combination between an online convenience store and a service store than a discount store. In my opinion, we save people time and mental energy rather than (giving them the impression that they save) a few dollars, which, long term, is always more important. After all, time is money, as the old saying goes, and you can never get it back. One can shop from Quixtar literally any time of day--before going to work, downtime during work (in some cases), in the middle of the night, and even over smart phones. On top of that, there is the Ditto program, which allows people to plan out their entire grocery list (even nonconsumables!) and budget for an entire year. Then, there is the IBO, who is knowledgeable about the products (hopefully) and can assist a customer in various ways, including giving out product samples and helping a customer get set up on Ditto.  

Conversely, as far as grocery stores, I have heard of people taking a significant portion of their weekends to go get what they need. During prime shopping time, it is usually crowded, with long lines. On top of that, many stores are set up for impulse buying. Considering all these factors, are customers really "saving" that much money, even when some Quixtar products cost significantly more than other products?

Another thing is when people say (regarding products being shipped), "Yeah, but I want to be able to go get it now." Why can't a person figure out how much he/she uses, how much he/she will need, and how much it will cost ahead of time? That way, instead of "going to get it right now" over and over again, he/she can have it "right now" already on hand.

By the way, I say "convenience store," because convenience stores are probably the "worst" as far as pricing goes, yet people shop from them all the time--probably on the way back from a discount store in a lot of cases! :) Obviously, though, Quixtar has a much greater variety than any convenience store. Therefore, to describe the prices as being closer to a convenience store than a discount store would be, I believe, an example of "underpromise and overdeliver." It would help the customer overcome the thought process of "Is this product cheaper than......." That would happen even before the discussion of product uniqueness, quality, or money-back guarantees.

Having said that, I like the suggestion of Quixtar offering smaller "case" quantities and/or more variety packs in addition to what's already available. That way, when a customer is trying one of our exclusives or one of our private label (i.e. Options) products, there isn't as much upfront commitment. Furthermore, it allows them to use their money to experiment with a wider variety of products, if they so choose, to see if they're satisfied. Similarly, IBOs who are using sampling wouldn't be stuck with such an upfront commitment of product. (I know there's the return policy, but I think smaller "cases" would be psychologically easier for many people to wrap their minds around, in a lot of cases.)

Just a few thoughts....okay, wel, maybe a lot of thoughts! Take care!

Michael

Nick Kobelja said:
September 14, 2007 4:10 PM | #

Beryl,

I'm trying to digest your comment about "thinking price first".  You seem to be saying that if you buy from your own store, then your money is not gone forever.  I'm thinking that this is not the case.  When you buy from your own store, you spend your money for the product and you lose all but 3% of it.  This is does not lead to profit for yourself and your own business.  All but 3% of your money is gone forever.

if, however, you are buying the product from your own store based on value/convenience, then you are a consumer and your are a happy, satisfied customer.  If you don't find value/convenience in the product, how can purchasing that item possibly be a smart business decision?  How can your purchase provide you financial security for a lifetime?  All but 3% of your money is gone forever.

In both cases your money is going to corp and your upline.  You are providing financial security for them -- not yourself.

Now, from the bottom of the stack, your only income from the business is from retail sales.  It pays to think like one of your customers as if they are going to a typical brick and mortar store.  Do they care about PV/BV?  Do they care about your financial freedom and security?  I would say, based on my own consuming experience, no.

We sell our products retail based on value/cost.  If the cost is high, then the value is high.  Salespersons (us) need to find ways to increase the value so the value/cost ratio is higher.  But what if the cost is WAY high?  Is it possible for a salesperson to sell a $1000 tube of toothpaste?  I suppose if he's good enough he can.  But probably to not many of his neighbors.

So, thinking like a customer -- and a salesperson -- price is a concern.  A customer doesn't care about PV/BV or downlines, etc.

Did I totally miss your point you were trying to make?

Thanks.

Big Bob said:
September 14, 2007 5:24 PM | #

geeez!!!  reading this page makes me so proud to be associated w leaders of integrity who are on the journey of blazing new trails and breaking new ground on the path of opportunity and freedom for the new person.  This is exactly what the Team leadership is doing.  And I strongly encourage you Quixtar "loyalists" to step back for a moment find out more of what is really going on.  It seems as though most of you have blinders on and are only seeing what you want to see--that Quixtar is committed to you and your family success and the opportunity and success of all the new people who will be a part of your organizations.  Are they?  Then why would they change the contract of the Iboai board (who are  supposed to represent what's best for IBOships and have some pull in the corporations decision making process) to a monthly contract.  Why continue to sell high margin products w/o passing on more profits to IBOships?  Why change the name of there "great" business opportunity back to Amway?  I mean your business transformation was is 1999 and if it's so great why hasn't it exploded more.  Yet Q/A loyalists will  spin it, saying that there's been significant growth?  where?  if all the trends are lined up where's the massive growth wave?  Clearly it's dissipated.  And why would The Quixtar executives, lawyer, managing directors and family ownership ever consider for a fleeting second to break the values they hold so dear and slander the leadership and vision of Team associated leaders who have grown the Quixtar business since 1999 and before 1999.  please be open minded enough to do  the math and you'll see it doesn't all add up.  

I'd appreciate if you post this and allow for  some food for thought on you blog page b/c i realize that I am posting on a Quixtar-backed site.  And i understand you desire to be loyal to the opportunity that has created your successes, big and small.  Yet w/o some real discussion hear no ones going to learn much and it'll just turn into a site where people spin the truth more and more to  feel good that they're not the only ones who are unsure of the real story and what to believe.  P.S.  Team ibo don't really care about cheap prices that can compete w/ Walmart.  Most understand that it's not about the prices, it's about the opportunity.  howesver many of the posts in here are arguing the value/cost realtionship and spinning the arguement to the point where you believe that that's what this whole conflict is all about.  

I just realized that my ost is probably under the wrong catagory.  oh well,  It's still food for thought for htose who'll  chew on it.

later

Josh said:
September 15, 2007 11:29 AM | #

Hi again Nick,

Just wanted to comment your Sept 14 4:10pm comment.

With regards to your 3% analogy.  Even as someone who just got started IMO, you should be thinking like a business owner not as a consumer.  Now, putting all the pricing stuff aside for the moment, and say you buy what you need from yourself versus anywhere else.  That money you will spend is a constant and will be for the rest of your life (ie. Liability).  Again, for the moment, ignoring the "price" differences, receiving a check for 3% should be considered an Asset!  Aside from Quixtar I have never received ANY money back for buying at Wal Mart or similar store.

So, again IMO, dealing with the pricing issue is a personal preference.  If you don't find the value and/or potential of building this business then you will truly be frustrated for a long time.  What happens when that 3% is 18% or 25% off your products and adding to that the differentials from others in your group (remember WIDTH yields profitability).  That, for me, is worth any markup I have seen thus far.  

You may be different and I respect that also.

Big Bob said:
September 16, 2007 2:52 AM | #

I wrote a comment nearly 2 days ago and it's still not posted.  I reckon you guys ar pulling some BS censorship and that's pretty lame.  Nearly any other blogs on the WWW  would post comments if it's respectful.  But maybe that's to much to ask for a propaganda machine like this ram jam going on here.

Weak!

 

Editor's Note: Sorry Bob.  The moderators (myself included) appeared to be living our lives on Saturday! As you can see, we haven't been holding back on comments critical of Quixtar. -- RL

Mario A. Escalante said:
September 16, 2007 10:29 AM | #

A couple of weeks ago I did submit a comment at this place, but I have not seen any response yet. My personal concern is not about high prices. However, they could be better if there is good will. But let me stay on what I consider crucial for all of us. The following statement is part of the reasons why Quixtar products are priced as they are:"contain the highest- quality ingredients, and often feature attributes not available in other products".

As you know, sucralose is one of the contents of the XS energy drinks. Is it safe? What about the many IBO's children and youngsters who are drinking and eating in a daily basis these beverages. Should we be concern for them or not?

I'm hoping to get an answer!

Josh said:
September 17, 2007 1:28 PM | #

Big Bob,

If you want an example of a "ram jam" please refer the freeibo blog.  That sir, is the poster child for "ram jams"!!  

Go there and spout the same drivel you post here.  Many people, who are honest and respectful to both sides, have been subject to what you call "BS censorship".

The people who read and censor here usually take the weekend off as they so rightly deserve!

Jos said:
September 17, 2007 1:32 PM | #

Mario,

As I understand it, to offer a low or no sugar beverage there has to be an artificial sweetener.

Sucralose is the least controversial of these sweeteners, that I know of.

Ben said:
September 17, 2007 10:13 PM | #

Hi All,

One comment about the pricing/packaging on paper towels and toilet tissue.  Checkout Office Depot's website, they have 6 and 8 roll packaging for those types of items. $50 minimun for free delivery, and 12.5%PV, 30%BV almost matches our Store for More!

John Adkins said:
September 17, 2007 10:40 PM | #

Good Evening Folks,

Here is some food for thought in this debate. The next time you are about to head into your local WM, take a moment to look around. (maybe even "breathe", [a truly GREAT blog over @ 'Sales Speak']) The odds are pretty good that either in the shopping center or very nearby, you will find a Radio Shack. This too is a company that markets similar products (electronics) to WM. They also have no desire to be WM, but the most profitable stores are always near a WM. The reason is simple, the sales model is "You've got questions, We've got answers!". Trained staff taught to solve problems. Sometimes that means losing a sale to WM, but 95% of the time it means helping the customer use the product they just bought next door. Cables, batteries, additional accessories, etc. (BTW, did you know that $5.99 coax only cost about $0.19 to get in the door. talk about extreme mark-up!) NO PRICE MATCH, thank you very much. but, we will help you with our time and expertise. And customers are more than willing to pay for that premium service. Find some products that excite you, figure out why it does, and then go out and explain THAT to your customers. They'll buy, I promise!

Jeffrey said:
September 18, 2007 7:58 AM | #

Mario, my 5 year old grandson drinks XS Energy Drinks and has had no physical problems from them. Sometimes, he even has more than one of them a day.

Editor's Note posted by Katie Pearsall:
Quixtar does not promote the use of XS Energy Drinks for anyone under the age of 12.

Josh said:
September 20, 2007 2:52 PM | #

Jeffrey,

I would suggest the use of the caffeine free XS drinks for younger children as well as the Branium vitamins!!

There is a reason why the corporation doesn't suggest for kids under 12.

Jeffrey said:
September 20, 2007 6:26 PM | #

What I don't understand is this: If you read the Alticor blogs, the venom spewed on those about both the company and certain IBOs is nauseating. The only things missing are the guns, chains, knives, and pepper spray. There was also no response to the blog that the DeVos and Van Andel families are selling off some of their holdings to put Amway up for sale. Are they or not? There has been almost no response to the blogs that many of the prices of the Nutrilite supplements and herbals are obscene. I defend many of the prices, but for some of the Nutrilite items, they are absolutely budget breakers. And yet, when I mention that my 5 year old drinks XS energy drinks, there is an immediate response. Huh? I think that's called "covering your rear-end."

Nick Kobelja said:
September 21, 2007 10:47 PM | #

Josh,

Sorry about not replying sooner.   I appreciate your answer and I see your point.  Thanks for straightening me out :)

Buying from your own store makes as you describe it makes sense but one overriding concern that I feel has been missing is the "good steward of money" concept.  Some of us have shopped at lower-priced sources as a means to stay afloat.  As long as people follow the "good steward" philosophy, I have to say now that I understand your point and agree with you.

Jeffrey said:
September 22, 2007 12:47 AM | #

Oops, I have been a bad boy again. Sorry. I will try to be nicer.

I will buy Brainiums and Seismic Juice for him. Then, the old problem comes up again that I have harped on so many times on the blogs. Case lots. I only get to have him every other weekend, but I still have to buy a case of Seismic. What is the big deal about offering this stuff in a 2 or 4 pack? Call it a "sampler pack." It could even be a 3 or 6 pack with all 3 flavors. I sure wish I could work in Quixtar's marketing department for 2 years. The very first thing you'd see would be cases split up and smaller quantities available. The main reason that Wal-Mart will always do bazillions more in business than Sam's is because, even though Sam's might have even better prices than Wal-Mart, most people just simply do not like buying in bulk.

Josh said:
September 26, 2007 3:28 PM | #

Nick,

Just to further the discussion, with regards to staying afloat.  Let me ask you a question.  When you and/or your friends and family shop at say WM, do you really go in there to "stay afloat"?  Or do you typically find yourself buying your "stay afloat" groceries and then realize you also in your cart the "must have" sale items as well?

It has been my experience, both personal and with family, that when people shop at WM they have a specific list of things they need going in.  However, when they come out they have that list of things plus several other items (typically they don't need or won't use other than once).  Which is the beauty of WM and their marketing department.  That is called impulse buying!

Shopping from Quixtar and setting up a ditto avoids that impulse buying.  You are able to truly budget your money month in and month out for 12 months.

My point being, from strictly a dollar figure amount, that people who shop from WM will spend far more money than they do at Quixtar.  Much of which is or becomes useless junk that you really didn't need in the first place.

So the "stay afloat" mentality doesn't jive with me, not because you pointed it out, but because that is how I grew up.  Looking back, much of what my mom bought was worthless junk, that could have been redirected for other stuff (say bills for cars, house, etc).

Gary said:
October 13, 2007 6:44 PM | #

End of the Walmart Era - MSN 10/8/2007 article by the Wall Street Journal - excerpt

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/TheEndOfTheWalMartEra.aspx

There is more....but perhaps TEAM should re-think their bargain basement, coupon-clipping  strategy for wealth creation.  Yeah, go team, just go - you have been an embarrasment to all IBOs.

Editor's Note by Katie Pearsall:
Article content has been replaced by a link in order to respect copyrights.

B. Nichols said:
October 25, 2007 11:40 AM | #

Jeffrey,

If the DeVos and Van Andel families want to sell Amway they can surely do just that, because it is theirs to sell.  They don't need to have permission to do that from any of us!  Rich and Jay dared to invest.  What is our share of the investment over the last 48 years?  So we bought some product, and paid a renewal fee.  So what!  I remember when EVERYTHING was case lots ONLY!  And the most important part is that the DeVos and VanAndel families don't get involved in peoples' little "personal pity parties".  They have a business to run and are doing a tremendous job.  

Bridgett said:
October 25, 2007 9:21 PM | #

B. Nichols,

Regarding case lots, I don't think we can really compare yesterday to today.

The way we distribute today (direct ordering on line or via phone) is different than we did yesterday (co-op style product-pickup).

A customer of today is also quite different than the customer of yesterday. People are buying things in smaller quantities (convenience store and vending machine mentality).

Yes, it would be fantastic if all my customers thought "long-term" and ordered just once a month for the entire month. And the goal is to get them to do that. But in the meantime, having the ability to order smaller quantities--and be fulfilled by Quixtar--would be helpful. Critical? Not for me. But helpful, yes.

Again, this is from the point of view of a CUSTOMER, which, isn't that what this Transformation is all about? That if we are going to double and triple in sales, it's not going to come from more sponsoring. It's going to come from each of us growing a customer-base. This will result in more profit (immediate and long-term for the IBO) which will greatly help retention AND growth.

:)

Jeffrey said:
October 27, 2007 5:59 PM | #

Thank you, Bridgett.

What I am trying to get done with lowering the quantities would be helping everybody. It seems like the marketing department is shooting themselves (along with the entire company) in the foot when they are so defiant about not changing it.

Lower quantities will help in these ways: People will be more apt to try it when it is introduced as a new product. I have not yet ordered the new Simply Nutrilite canned drinks because I want to taste ONE first.

People will order more often. My current pending order that I'm working on is $140. If I add a case of XS Energy Drink, a case of Trim Advantage Meal Replacement Shakes, a case of Seismic drink, a case of XS Sport Drinks, and a case of XS Protein Shakes, my total skyrockets to DOUBLE what is is now. Yes, Double. Add it up and see.

Marketing department: How much of the above do you think I (or a downline IBO or a customer) is going to buy? Guess what?

N-O-N-E. Zip. Zilch. Zero.

Well, maybe one or two of the items, but certainly not all of it.

Most customers order once a month or once every other month. They mostly buy the products that are available in eaches. I have found from experience in my group that active IBOs order 2, 3, or 4 times per month. Most people are not doctors and lawyers that make $200 to $400 per hour so they place small to moderate-sized orders. They are not going to double the totals of their orders so they can by loyal. BUT, they might spend an extra $10 to $20 per order to order one of the above products, knowing that they will be placing another order next week.

I'm tired of being nice about about. The marketing department just doesn't get it. What does it take to get them to GET IT?

Marketing department, GET IT. Quit saying you're doing everything you can to help us; actually do something that will help us. Break down those case lots. You can be sure that I will be the absolutely first IBO in North America to order a single container or a new 2 or 4-pack of Meal Replacement Shakes or the Seismic drinks, a single can of XS Energy Drink, a single can of the new Simply Nutrilite Antioxidant Drinks, a single food bar, a single jar of peanut butter, a single bottle of ketchup, and on and on.

Marketing department: Please respond. Thank you.

Bridgett said:
October 29, 2007 11:40 AM | #

It's not just the marketing department. It's one thing to have a good idea. It's another to actually implement it.

I think single cans and single bars is asking too much. We have to look at logicstically, what if would take to do something like that.

Cans and bars are much more delicate than singles of other products like a thick plastic bottle of shampoo.

There would have to be a new stocking method and new machinery to handle the FULFILLMENT of those kinds of orders.

And I think the cost is higher than the reward.

I can see the value of offering 6-packs on things that currently come in 12 and 24 packs--if the ROI (return on investment) is positive.

Jeffrey said:
October 30, 2007 3:33 PM | #

OK, I'll settle for a 4-pack. Red Bull has 4-packs. Even a response from the marketing department would be nice, but so far I have not even got an acknowledgement on the blogs.

rocket said:
October 30, 2007 10:11 PM | #

Jeffrey, I smell what you're cooking.

I posted about you on my blog.

The fact that it is not viewed as economically feasible speaks volumes about the opportunity.

The lack of response you are receiving about a very valid concern also speaks volumes.

I feel your pain brutha.

YankeeIBO said:
October 31, 2007 8:21 AM | #

Jeffrey,

I understand your pain, but Bridgett is right on. I work in distribution, and the sale of broken cases--eaches--is one of the top three expenses in the warehouse. Every item that is damaged, broken, or lost--whether in the warehouse or in shipping, is a direct loss to the bottom line for the company. How much more would Q have to sell to recoup those dollar losses? Are you willing to pay 25-50% more for an individual can of XS--or even a 4-pack? Would your customers?

Buy the case and send it back if you don't like the one you try--it won't cost you ANYTHING. I understand also about trying to get everything you need squeezed into the money you have. Everyone who shops for groceries deals with the same problem every week. The solution--rotation. Buy the quantities because they are cheaper, and rotate the purchases--sounds like DITTO to me!!

However, it would be nice to have an assortment boxe of lines like XS, Trim Body, and Simply Nutrilite--prepackaged for personal or sample use.

Bridgett said:
October 31, 2007 10:58 PM | #

rocket,

I believe you are disingenious regarding Jeffrey's concerns.

Both myself and Yankee IBO have addressed how selling cans and bars in eaches doesn't make fiscal sense. Can you tell me what website sells these items in eaches? I do not know of any. Please point some out. If there are any, maybe Quixtar can learn from them.

_________________________________________

And, by the way, the training isn't about justifying the prices. Do you have access to Quixtar University? Have you watched all the modules? Because what you are saying on your blog is inaccurate. None of the training talks about justifying the price.

How can you write about things you know nothing about? Why should people listen to you? It's really all quite bizarre to me. ;)

Bridgett said:
October 31, 2007 11:09 PM | #

Jeffrey,

Remember the First Dibs? I would love to have a modified First Dibbs. Forget about all the flyers/literature. Forget about giving full sizes of new products. Hey Marketing, what if we could all sign up for a First Circle First Dibs where we could get a sample box of all the new stuff?--like one bar of each of the flavors, one can of each of the juices, sample sizes of new cremes, etc.

See, here's the deal: Many IBOs do NOT live near their Platinum. Many IBOs so NOT do the "old fashioned" product-pickup any more.

Or, you have IBOs that don't associate with their Platinum for a variety of reasons (usually a clash with their System).

Because of this, many IBOs do not have the opportunity to touch and feel products like they did in the past.

So how does the Corp help these IBOs?

Yes you are creating sample sizes of things--like the protein snack bar samples for us to give to customers. But what about your "sales force"? Wouldn't it be smart to make it easier for US to sample the products--the ones actually marketing your product?

First Circle First Dibs in my vote. :)

Jeffrey said:
November 1, 2007 1:53 AM | #

The companies that give consumers what they want are the ones that are going to make it. The ones that don't, won't. To quote Crown Ambassador Dan Williams: "It's as simple as that."

The "buy it and if you don't like it, send it back" is older than my late grandmother's green Pontiac.  Anybody that is dumb enough to think that a customer is going to buy a case of XS or TA Shakes, taste it, and then send it back has been living in Antarctica too long. This is 2007, not 1954. Break down those case lots, for heaven's sake. Sheesh!

Jeffrey said:
November 1, 2007 12:38 PM | #

Bridgett:

I love your idea about the sample First Dibs. I think it's incredible.

Here's another idea: The company needs to get rid of the insane cycle delivery. I was supposed to get my order on Tuesday. I still haven't got it.

It's great that the company has opened these blogs for dialogs. It's just a shame that nobody from marketing is listening or responding.

YankeeIBO said:
November 2, 2007 8:01 AM | #

Jeffrey--How many 4-packs of XS are you going to sell at $10.95 each? That's the economic reality attached to breaking cases and repackaging, or having to make another space in the warehouse available for the smaller packs or eaches--They can't be in the same picking slot. If your customers won't send back the stuff they don't like, then you do it for them, so they can see how painless it is. Maybe they would try more stuff once they know that we really do stand behind our products.

It has been my experience that the people around us reflect the attitude we bring to the table. When I have changed my attitude I always notice that the response of those around me changes along with it!

I think I got that from a book or CD somewhere...... ;-)

Jeffrey said:
November 2, 2007 12:44 PM | #

YankeeIBO: How many retail customers do you have that buy XS Energy Drinks and Trim Advantage Meal Replacement Shakes? How many and how often? And how can Red Bull have a 4-pack? How do they do it? Why can they do it and we can't? Why do we have a smaller size of Daily now? Because people want to buy in smaller quantities. Case lots is Sam's Club broke mentality.

rocket said:
November 5, 2007 10:13 PM | #

And we go back to the non - competitive prices.  Jeffrey wants to break cases up, that's not economically viable, and I understand that.

Jeffrey is right, Red Bull does it.  Many people do it.  Wal-Mart does it, and is VERY successful at it.

Amway/Quixtar is not.  Too many layers, too inefficient.

Bridgett, your prices are not in line with what consumers will pay consistently.  Less than 5% of sales were to a retail customer.

Every time you bring up that little point to an IBO, they say that the quality is better, or that the ingredients make it worth the extra expense.  Obviously, not too many end consumers can see the value in it.  

Being directed to a Nutrilite site is not going to convince people.

Jeffrey gets it, why can't everyone else?

How many ex-IBO's continue buying products because they are of such good value?

Yet its me who doesn't know what he's talking about.

Bridgett said:
November 6, 2007 1:28 PM | #

rocket,

Have you heard of Whole Foods Market? I shop there. I've been shopping there since 1991. 16 years. Way before I was an IBO.

Have you seen their prices? Most people would not shop at Whole Foods. Yet the company did $6 BILLION in sales last year AND acquired another chain of stores--Wild Oats--just recently.

Just like Whole Foods is not looking to compete with your local Ralph's/Albertson's/Whatever-You've-Got-In-Canada grocery store, neither is Amway/Quixtar looking to compete with Wal-Mart.

THEY ARE GOING AFTER TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT MARKETS.

Amway/Quixtar is not looking to appeal to the masses. That's Wal-Mart business model.

The title of this thread is "Not Wal-Mart and Never Want to Be"

Got it?

rocket said:
November 6, 2007 5:33 PM | #

Got it, and you have proven my point Bridgett.  Amway/Quixtar is promoted as a business to the masses, yet it, like your Whole Foods, Ralph's etc is a niche market.

There are not those types of stores all over the place, but there are I(a?) Bo's all over the North American continent.

It is a niche market, which is not competitive to the end consumer, yet is promoted as a business for the masses.

It ain't.  Less than 5% retail to customers illustrates that point quite nicely.

I wonder why it wasn't shared earlier?

YankeeIBO said:
November 6, 2007 8:42 PM | #

Jeffrey--Red Bull comes in a CASE of 4-packs that is opened and stocked on the shelves of the store for you to wander through and pick one up. They are not SHIPPED to the stores in individual 4-packs in the truck--big difference. Just go to WalMart.com, and try to get Red Bull, or vitamins, or a can of Campbell's Chunky soup DELIVERED TO YOUR DOOR.

XS is a 12-pack--don't you buy 12-packs of soda at the store? If you are using Trim Advantage Meal Replacement shakes, a 12-pack is less than a two-week supply--why would anyone only want one?

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to be able to pick and choose one of this and one of that, but Quixtar is not a brick and mortar business. As tenacious and persuasive as you are about this, I can't believe you haven't been able to make your customers see the advantages of buying the larger quantities! ;-)

Bridgett said:
November 7, 2007 1:51 PM | #

rocket,

WHO promotes Amway/Quixtar as a business to the masses?

Amway/Quixtar is NOT for the masses--as a business opportunity nor as a manufacturer/distributor of goods and services.

I have NEVER marketed the opportunity or the products to the masses.

People take the low cost to register with Quixtar/Amway as "proof" that this is for everyone.

IT IS NOT.

It allows people with no capital to start their business. There are people out there willing to work hard and smart, but in “traditional business”, lots of times you need a chunk of change to get started.

And lots of times, with started a traditional business you have to go full-time (more like overtime), jump in with both feet.  With this opportunity, you can go slowly, start out part-time, and if you CHOOSE, you could increase your efforts in order to get more results.

This opportunity is not for someone who thinks this is easy money.

And those promoting it as such are full of crap, lying, immoral, unethical. And should be scolded accordingly. :)

Jeffrey said:
November 7, 2007 9:27 PM | #

I do not buy pop except when it is on sale. I never buy 12-packs. I buy a 2-liter. One of them at a time. It lasts only a couple of days. Then maybe the next week, I'll buy a different flavor. One. Each. Uno. But, I almost never buy pop anymore since we have the XS Energy Drinks.

Don't you think that A/Q/A would move much more volume if they had a "Sample Pack" Trim Advantage Meal Replacement Shake? A 4-pack with 2 of each flavor. Would it break the company and send it into receivership to do something like that? Uh, I doubt it.

My upline Diamond would rather kiss a toilet than have a product fair and let people try samples so it is up to me to buy the stuff and try it.

I also know that this business is not for kids. It's a "step up to the plate and do something with your life" business. However, if you talk like that to your customers, they'll go to Wally World. They go where it is convenient. They'll go where they can get what they want, how they want it. The entire point of e-commerce is so customers can order 24/7 on their own and not have an IBO calling on them. All I'm saying is to make it easy for the customers that want to order things on their own, to try the products in a small sampler size.

We also need: 2 oz. sample bottles for the Satinique line, the Body Series liquid soaps, SA8 Liquid detergent, and other products. It could either be empty 2 oz. bottles with stickers for all those products, or it could be actual 2 oz. bottles with printed labels from the company. If it was empty bottles with stickers, we could send or deliver them to customers or downline IBOs. If it was bottles filled by the company, customers and IBOs could order them on their own.

I'm just trying to think of every way I can to generate volume, not only for me, but for other IBOs and the company. My Diamond (who is also my upline Platinum) never, ever has product expos and has never made sample products available. I've bitten the bullet and spent the $20 to $30 to try all these different items. I thought it was nuts when I did it and I still think it is nuts. Yes, it is a small price to pay, and I still don't like it. I don't make $200 an hour like my doctor or lawyer so sometimes it is a struggle. I am at 1800 PV.

All I'm saying is the company should try it and monitor it. If it doesn't move, then I have been proved wrong and they should discontinue it and I'll get off of it.  If it works, then what did it hurt? I'm trying to help your business, too.

Utah said:
November 8, 2007 11:10 AM | #

Natural E (The new product)

I have requested more information on the site to explain why the drop from parseleniam E 400 IU to Natural E 30 IU at the same price. I understand that it now has more kinds of vitamin e and that those numbers are not reflected in the 30 IU. There is no label shown on the website so the only way I know there is 30 IU is via email.

If this is such a great new product, more information is needed to show to potential customers, or at least IBOs.

Editor's Note:
Our marketers tell us that for vitamin E supplements, International Unites (IU) are calculated only based on the alpha tocopherol component. However, vitamin E research has shown that high consumption of vitamin E from the diet supports a healthy cardiovascular system. Vitamin E in a supplement should match the form of vitamin E found in a healthy diet. We carefully matched the balance between the different vitamin E components in this formula to match that found in a healthy diet. In order to do that, we had to lower the alpha tocopherol level, and increase the levels of beta, gamma, and delta tocopherol, as well as add tocotrienols, which are also found in a healthy diet but were not present in our previous formula. In short, this formula is designed to deliver more of the benefits of vitamin E as found in a healthy diet. This information, as well as a label, will be up on the product page at www.quixtar.com soon.

Katie Pearsall

Jeffrey said:
November 10, 2007 11:54 PM | #

The thing I didn't like about the new Vitamin E product is that it is the same price as the old Parselenium E, but lower PV/BV. Can't you guys leave the PV/BV alone, even once?

rocket said:
November 12, 2007 2:19 PM | #

Hey Bridgett

We disagree.  Any seminar or rally that I was ever at promoted this as a business for everyone.

Same with every tape, or CD I ever listened to.

In order to make a real difference in what your bottom line is, you need to have competitively priced products.  You don't.

Less than 5% retail to customers illustrates that point quite nicely.

The products you are selling are not what consumers in today's day and age want.

Less than 5% retail to customers illustrates that point quite nicely.

YOU may not promote it as such, but up until now, most everyone else has been.

Tell you what.  I'll make a list of what I'm buying for the next month.  You give me a quote, and include shipping.  If you are even 5% OVER what I would spend anyways, then you got yourself a customer and PV.  

Don't start on the convenience with the door to door delivery for two reasons:

1.  I could pick up toilet paper when I'm picking up milk.

2.  It's seldom to your door anyways, without a HUGE amount of money for delivery charges.

What do you say Bridgett?

Thought So.

That's why this business doesn't work.

Sorry.

AnonIBO said:
November 12, 2007 2:46 PM | #

Actually rocket and Bridgett,

It is a business appealing to the masses, why do you think we have so many product lines to choose from?

We are appealing to those looking for nutrition, cosmetics, skincare, home, auto, etc. I could count probably 10-12 diferent niches or more Quixtar appeals to.

Probably another 10-12 niches just within the nutritional line. There's anti aging, skincare, etc etc.

There is a vast appeal to the marketplace and does get to the end user.

Jeffrey said:
November 13, 2007 5:57 PM | #

It actually is not a business that appeals to the masses, because whether we are talking about a prospective IBO or customer, the people that look at our business or products are looking for a specialty. On the other hand, I'm an ordinary guy. Most of my customers are just blue collar working stiffs that are trying to save a buck. That's why I promote economy--cost per use--for the concentrated products and the higher quality of our other products over the store brands. It's worked great. But, most of my customers don't ever buy more than $50 or $60 at a time, if even that. That's also why I am now telling prospective IBOs that most customers will only do about 15 PV or about $45. Many customers just simply won't spring for the pricey Anti-Oxidant Complex, even after I tell them what it has done for me. I've never sold any anti-aging Artistry products. It's nice we have it, but most people just want a box of SA8, a bottle of Nutrilite Daily, and a bottle of LOC. They know the quality is top-notch, it is a fair price, and I'll be there if they ever have a question about any of the products. Now, try finding a clerk at Wal-Mart who knows or cares about anything they carry. That's the difference.

Bridgett said:
November 13, 2007 8:16 PM | #

Hey rocket,

We do disagree.

I do not know how many CDs you've listened to. I don't know what LOA you've heard from.

The CDs I've listened to state VERY clearly that this business "is simple but not easy." Right there, that rules out over 80% of the US/Canadian population.

Probably more like 95%.

As far as being a potential customer of mine, I can tell from your writings that it wouldn't be a good fit. You are cranky and not interested in my products nor my services, so why would I even bother with you?

And isn't that so fantastic!?

If I ran a traditional business, I'd have some we-are-being-discriminated-against group all over my butt 'cause I wouldn't let you in to my store.

And I do not feel like you took in ANYTHING I have said in my other comments such as the Whole Foods crowd.

I was just at Whole Foods today and spent

$8/lb cheddar cheese,

$2.50/dozen eggs,

$2.69/lb pears

To name a few. $100 later, I walked out with two shopping bags. If your shopping habits aren't like mine, then you do not fit the profile of the customer I am looking for.

By the way, orders over $75 are FREE shipping for customers.

And this business doesn't work? Huh?

rocket, the truth is that you are not really interested in having a dialogue. You have your reality and do not want to be confused with the facts.

I now understand why there is such an imbalance of negative versus positive posters regarding this biz.

It's a waste of time for those of us who are building our business. We are too busy DOING it to write about it for a bunch of people who aren't interested in celebrating our successes in a business opportunity in which they choose not to participate.

I don't get people like you. Sometimes people like you are fascinating to watch, but after awhile, it gets old and boring.

I’m going to go now and read to my children before bedtime.

Have a great evening, rocket.

rocket said:
November 14, 2007 6:21 PM | #

Hello again Bridgett.  You obviously didn't catch my drift about niche markets.  That's OK.  I didn't think you'd want to understand, and I won't rehash it to try and convince you.

Orders over $75.00 are free for customers?  What about for IBO's?

"This business is simple, but not easy".  I've heard that a number of times by IBO's.  Looks like it's convinced you!

It's not that I'm cranky, I just choose substance over fluff and value over hype.

I am interested in having a dialog, but I'm not going to just take your word for things like a loyal down line would do.  

The problem is I fail to see the value of the products you are promoting.  I have seen and learned for myself the simple fact that the goods you offer are available elsewhere for much less money.  

I also have seen personally and read about hardships people have incurred as a result of this business.  I sincerely hope you don't become one of them.

I fail to see the value in paying more for a product so that bonuses can be paid to the various layers of any given organization.  I also realize that if I see this, so would any person who chose to investigate this business.  

I'm sure they would come to the same conclusion I have.  It's not a paying proposition, nor worthy of my time to promote the said poor value.  I would rather spend time with my children than pursue a goal that many people seem to be quitting after achieving.  Based on the exodus of diamonds as of late, it's obviously not worth even being inactive in and collecting the much heralded residuals.

You and I both know that you don't want me as a customer because I would be proven right.  I even went through the trouble of posting about you on my blog.  I'm disappointed you aren't confident enough to prove me wrong.  

You can claim otherwise, but your reluctance to prove me wrong is very transparent.

Bridgett said:
November 15, 2007 11:59 AM | #

rocket said, "The problem is I fail to see the value of the products you are promoting. "

It's not a problem at all, rocket. It's personal preference. And I am totally fine with you and MILLIONS like you that don't see the value.

And I am glad that there are companies like Nutrilite and like Artistry who do NOT cater to the masses.

Just like I appreciate Whole Foods for not catering to the masses.

I am grateful for the products and services that these companies offer because *I* like them and *I* value you them.

_____________________________________

rocket said, "I have seen and learned for myself the simple fact that the goods you offer are available elsewhere for much less money."

Every single product Quixtar offers? That seems like a VERY broad brushstroke, rocket.

If I can find a product, very similar in quality, for less, and the convenience factor and customer service factor are the same, then I buy it somewhere else. Example: all my paper products are not purchased from Quixtar. When I had to buy diapers, I bought them somewhere else as well.

Sometimes I just like a product more regardless of price, like the Glister mouthwash. I know I can get some *generic* brand for a few pennies less. But I just like the size—TWO OUNCES yields 3 QUARTS.

I think that’s so cool. I spray five squirts in the little “shot glass”, add water, and I save a ton of counter space. And it is great for traveling.

_____________________________________

rocket said, "I also have seen personally and read about hardships people have incurred as a result of this business.  I sincerely hope you don't become one of them."

I appreciate your concern. I have not seen "hardships", however I have seen people making certain choices of how they spend their time and their money that weren't the best choices.

As far as reading, yes, I've read things, and it's kind of hard for me to see and understand the full picture, when these "readings" are one-sided and out of context with the rest of the person's life.

_____________________________________

rocket said, "I fail to see the value in paying more for a product so that bonuses can be paid to the various layers of any given organization."

Not only do I fail to see the value, I think this practice is totally unethical and bad business. If a product can’t stand on its own, without a business opportunity attached to it, then it’s not a good product.

The LOAs, not Quixtar, have taught “100% personal use”. And this kind of loyalty has screwed things up bigtime. However, I am VERY encouraged with the First Circle Initiative, as well as the “cleaning house” that’s being done to stop this “self-consumption” model.

_____________________________________

rocket said, “Based on the exodus of diamonds as of late, it's obviously not worth even being inactive in and collecting the much heralded residuals.”

I don’t know the facts. And I’m not a fan of spouting my opinions when I don’t know the facts. All I can say is that, if what I know about how these diamonds operated their businesses are true, then their main source of income was NOT the Quixtar business, and how they made that money was not exactly moral.

So to avoid being pounded in to the ground by the legal system and incurring mega $$ in legal fees, resigning their IBOships made fiscal sense.

_____________________________________

rocket said, “You and I both know that you don't want me as a customer because I would be proven right.  I even went through the trouble of posting about you on my blog.  I'm disappointed you aren't confident enough to prove me wrong.“

You proven right, me proven wrong…about what? I am completely agreeing with you that my products and this business opportunity are not for you and not for the masses.

But yes, we are in disagreement that in order for a business model to work, it must appeal to the masses. I do not subscribe to that belief. And there are plenty of business models/opportunities out there that are successful to support my point.

I used Whole Foods as an example, because it’s product lines—food, nutritional supplements, hair care, cosmetics, skin care, cleaning products, etc,--are similar in quality and scope as those offered by Quixtar.

_____________________________________

Thanks for playing, rocket.

=)

Utah said:
November 16, 2007 2:33 AM | #

Bridgett,

For some of us that feel like Q/A kicked us in the stomach, and are in the middle of a divorce, It is nice to see that the direction Q/A seems to be heading will work for at least some of the existing IBOs. I for one am glad for your success and wish you more. You shouldn't have to defend it.

I am still having problems with direction. I see so many mistakes Q/A has and is making. Too many changes that I don't agree with. That being said, no one, IBO, former IBO, future IBO or those currently lost.., no one should try to tear down what you are trying to accomplish. May you do well.

I hope, however you might be more understanding as to those that are hurt and mad at Q/A. People shouldn't take it out on the IBOs that like the new direction.

I believe Alticor needs a big wake up call. Doug and Steve, in my opinion, didn't learn compassion from their fathers. Rich and Jay would have never acted like their sons have and are, either by inaction or action. The carnage/body count is amazing. Not only for Quixtar, but for Amway UK.

rocket said:
November 16, 2007 3:27 PM | #

Proven you right or wrong about the prices, Bridgett.  If you do agree that this business and the prices in it are not for the masses, then do you realize what you've just said?

What most would presume you to mean is MOST people won't buy from you.  

Too bad you don't believe that for a business to be successful it should appeal to the masses, at least to some degree.  I'll bet many of those niche markets have more customer potential than an IBO.  Guess how I know that?

Less than 5% of the volume moved by IBO's was to a retail customer.  Don't you wonder why?  If the stuff you have to offer was even half as good as you purport, don't you think there would be more retailing happening?  Haven't you read in lawsuits that Amway has been begged by leaders to lower their prices?  Are they all wrong?

The average income for an IBO is $115 a year.

Diamonds are quitting.  I'll bet you $1000 that they still don't buy Amway products.

Go and try to retail your products at a community exposition.  Nobody will buy from you because they are not worth what you are asking!  That is my, and many other's opinion, including many current IBO's.  

Seems every IBO is all good until challenged to prove their claims, as in the case with you (products are good value).  I admire your rhetoric, but it doesn't prove anything at all, nor dispute the simple facts.

How many ex-IBO's still buy the products?  Betcha $1000 less than 2%.  

Still didn't answer my question if shipping was free for orders over $75.00 for IBO's.  

Quite simply, there is nothing you can say to any sane person that will make them think the stuff you are hawking is a good deal.  I'm sorry, but that's the truth.

Not that it matters.  Any way you slice it, you still won't be successful as an individual IBO until Amway pokes their head into the real world.  You can't argue with the obvious.

Have an excellent weekend Bridgett

ibofightback said:
November 17, 2007 3:24 PM | #

This conversation between Bridgett and Rocket demonstrates quite clearly the position of a number of "critics" of our business. They can't see the benefit or value of the products to them so they therefore conclude there is no market for them, that nobody would want them.

It's an incredibly egocentric view of the world.

Bridgett said:
November 17, 2007 11:31 PM | #

Utah said, “I hope, however you might be more understanding as to those that are hurt and mad at Q/A.”

Utah, I very much appreciate you and I sympathize with you.

To be clear, though I believe we are not of the same LOA, I too have had my wandering moments. Starting specifically when the name change to Amway was announced in June. So though I may not completely understand your circumstances, I think ALL IBOs at ALL levels are trying to figure things out with this Transformation.

This “new” business is not what I originally was shown or signed up for. But, I see why this is the direction it needs to go. Now, that’s my opinion and I respectfully honor your differing opinion.

Please know that what I’ve written on this thread in my “dialogue” with rocket is for those who criticize this business and the Corp for the fun of it. For sheer pleasure and amusement, with absolutely no heart or soul.

Utah, thank you for your well wishes. And I wish for direction, wisdom, discernment, peace, and joy for you always.

Bridgett said:
November 17, 2007 11:32 PM | #

rocket said, “Less than 5% of the volume moved by IBO's was to a retail customer.  Don't you wonder why?”

I don’t need to wonder. I know why. LOAs have taught a “self consumption” model for years. Mine included. This is not the “authentic” Quixtar/Amway model. Retail was not only not emphasized, some considered in beneath them. Like you were a poor soul if you HAD to retail.

When I say things like “First Circle Initiative”, rocket, do you know what I am talking about? It’s all about helping an IBO be profitable by RETAILING and WITHOUT sponsoring. It’s having a Circle worth duplicating.

___________________________________________

rocket said, “Haven't you read in lawsuits that Amway has been begged by leaders to lower their prices?  Are they all wrong?”

I do not know the hearts and minds of those who choose to file lawsuits. But being married to someone who’s read 1000’s of court documents and covered 100s of court cases, I would advise you to not believe everything you read.

___________________________________________

rocket said, “The average income for an IBO is $115 a year.”

Actually, the very misleading stat is $115 a *MONTH* for an *ACTIVE* IBO. And then you must look at what is considered “active” to know that the stat is lame, holds no water, and is one of those fabulous lawyer disclaimers that we have to say when Showing the Plan.

An "active" IBO is one who attempted to make a retail sale, or presented the Quixtar® IBO Compensation Plan, or received bonus money, or attended a company or IBO meeting during the year.

If I became an IBO (to buy at a discount) who only bought products for personal consumption, with no intention of ever building a business, and I got a PV check just one time (so I bought about $300 worth of stuff one month) I would be considered ACTIVE and my $9 bonus check is thrown in to the average.

___________________________________________

rocket said, “Go and try to retail your products at a community exposition.”

I don’t know what a “community exposition” is. Must be a Canadian thing. Is this like a fair or a swap meet? If so, that’s against the Quxitar rules.

___________________________________________

rocket said, “Nobody will buy from you because they are not worth what you are asking!  That is my, and many other's opinion, including many current IBO's. “

You shouldn’t purchase them, many others shouldn’t, including many current IBOs, if your OPINION is that the products are not worth what I am asking.

___________________________________________

rocket said, “Seems every IBO is all good until challenged to prove their claims, as in the case with you (products are good value).”

What is there to prove? You just said it’s an opinion. How can I prove or disprove an opinion?

___________________________________________

rocket said, “there is nothing you can say to any sane person that will make them think the stuff you are hawking is a good deal.”

Really. Hmm. All my customers seem like well-adjusted contributing members of society…And I think the stuff I am “hawking” is a good deal…Oh my..that means...oh rocket, I’m INSANE!

No, taking advice and direction for my life from a faceless blogger who goes by the name of “rocket” would be insane.

:)

Steve said:
January 6, 2008 9:31 PM | #

Bridgett said:  I don’t need to wonder. I know why. LOAs have taught a “self consumption” model for years. Mine included. This is not the “authentic” Quixtar/Amway model.

Joe says:  Doesn't this make it a pyramid model and possibly in conflict with the 1979 FTC ruling?

rocket said:
January 22, 2008 2:53 AM | #

Steve, that would be a great question for Amway to answer.

Unfortunately in over 2 weeks, you haven't gotten one.  I find that very example to be part of the problem with Amway and how it is managed.  Lack of real answers because it may open up a new can of worms that would have to be dealt with.  It's not fair to IBO's seeking responses to valid questions.

Bridgett, I was incorrect about $115/year.  My bad.  A shade under $1400 is much more respectable.  Someone working a $5/hour job would make that in about 7 weeks.  As far as what is considered active, that's Amway's definition, so I guess that's what we're stuck with.

Looks like you will be able to retail at community event soon.  That's good news!

I've read a lot of lawsuits as well.  It doesn't change the facts presented by leaders at undoubtedly a higher level than you who believe that the prices are too high to be realistically marketed.

That's fantastic you have well adjusted customers.  Maybe you'll be the tip of the sword in developing leaders who aren't self indulgent  and self absorbed.

Despite what it may sound like, if you are truly spending time with people and trying to portray the value your products have, believe me, I admire that.

But you must certainly concede that that vast riches that are purported by the past "leaders" in the "Profiles of Success" will be nigh impossible to attain based on retailing products.  

Perhaps that is another battle Amway could fight on the rank and file IBO's behalf, getting rid of that particular deceptive recruiting tool.

Bridgett said:
January 23, 2008 1:50 AM | #

rocket,

I haven't read the FTC rulings, but I believe IBOFighback addresses misnomers like the one Steve/Joe has raised, on his truthaboutamway website.

___________________________________________

Regarding the "vast riches", you are right that I do not I have enough hours in the day to retail my way to "freedom". *That* is where the duplication part of the Plan comes in. The duplication part of the Plan is what got my attention.

I know that even though you are a critic of the biz, you know enough about the biz to understand duplication, which is done by sponsoring.

Many groups have been sponsoring "personal use" circles. From a business standpoint, that doesn’t make any sense. That’s like McDonald’s franchising stores that only feed one family each—the franchisee’s family.

With retailing, envision the circles being, say $3,000 circles. Circles (businesses) which contain personal use, but is mostly customer volume. How many customers? I don't know. Could be 30 who buy $100/month, 15 who buy $200/month, 60 who buy $50/month. Whatever it takes.

With technology today--the websites, dropshipping, Ditto, free shipping (on orders of $75 or more)—combined with the breadth of product lines, there's no reason not to be able to service 30 customers buying $100/month.

Does it happen overnight? No. It takes W-O-R-K.

But the payoff is quite nice—The IBO makes good money and that leads to confidence. Confidence to show the plan, and confidence to help others develop a customer base, and show the plan (if they want to sponsor, which not everyone does)

And confidence to combat you and your cronies with their actions, rather than words on a computer screen.

When I’ve helped someone make their first few hundred bucks through retailing, all the crap they read on the Internet fades away ‘cause that is not *their* experience.

Is this business perfect? No. Has my experience with it been perfect? No. Is my LOA perfect? No. Is the Corp perfect? No. And, I choose to pursue it anyway.

__________________________________________

Regarding “this deceptive recruiting tool”, rocket, I’m sorry but I just feel like you are so out of touch. The arguments that you have about this business and the Corp. are so two-minutes ago.

The Corp is mandating things—from presenting the Business Opportunity through registration and beyond, that address these issues AND they have procedures to follow up to make sure that those things were done correctly.

Will there be those who break the rules? Yes. And the Corp. has some nice penalties (like major loss of income) in place for that as well.

*Sigh* It’s late. I must get back to my “real” life. :-)

rocket said:
January 23, 2008 11:57 AM | #

Great points Bridgett

I am disappointed in your outlook on the "deceptive recruiting tool" that you say is so two minutes ago.  These tactics are still being used to this day.

There is ample documentation that the "leaders" have and continue to make the bulk of their income through the motivational business.  If you like, I can provide it to you, most of it is available on the internet.

My stance is that without the motivational money, the lifestyle portrayed in the "Profiles of Success" simply isn't attainable, which is why it's use should be ceased.

If you don't see those tactics as deceptive and dishonest, well, many would say that it's you who is woefully out of touch.

The topic of this post is about why Quixtar/Amway's prices are generally higher than Wal-Mart.  Have you seen the drastic slashing of prices in the UK?

Obviously it can be done.  If you hope to accomplish your first circle goals, you will need that to happen here.

Right now, the market has spoken, and it's saying, "No thanks.  That's not worth it".

You very well may be trying to do it right, and you can say that it's working for you all you like.  Unfortunately, people who have been around this business for many years, and previous IBO's would think the same thing:

It's very difficult to believe you are successful at retailing.

rocket said:
January 23, 2008 12:06 PM | #

PS as far as penalties the corporation imposes:

Pardon me, but how do you know?  

Did someone tell you that, or do you know?

Because I completely disagree with how the corporation handles disputes.  That's not transparent either.

Most often,. they will try to gag everyone through arbitration, they don't WANT people knowing what the problems are and how they handle them.

Greg Fredericks set everyone's business back considerably when he made those ridiculous claims on Dateline NBC, yet nobody knows what happened with him.

What is the "penalty" for not being accredited?  

You sound far too intelligent to be that Pollyanna.

Not very transparent at all, and you should care because it affects you much more than it affect us critics.

Other than providing more ammo.

Bridgett said:
January 23, 2008 4:35 PM | #

rocket,

I am not here to save the world or to save all of Quixtar or to save all of Amway Global.

I cannot control every single IBO’s actions.

Nor can I control how each and every single product is priced.

Nor can I control what every single person in the Universe thinks about this business.

I focus on what I *do* have control over and I take responsibility and I move forward.

This isn’t a game for me, rocket.

This business isn’t a form of entertainment for me, as it is for you, rocket.

Your statements are half-truths. You are operating on old or partial information.

But unlike others who feel it’s their “calling” to defend this biz on the Internet to a bunch of people who don’t even give a rip about them, but just do all this blogging as a pastime, I feel it’s my “calling” to actually do the work.

Having said that, I truly see no ROI (return on investment) engaging in a conversation with someone who I don’t even know!

And, really, I don’t care to know. And I’m sure getting to know me isn’t on your top ten lists of things to do before you die.

If you were saying all this to me in person, rocket, I’d politely smile and nod and walk away.

There are products to sell, plans to show, and people to coach and mentor.

Peace. Love. And all that jazz.

Bridgett out.

rocket said:
January 25, 2008 12:37 PM | #

f you come back Bridgett, I'd certainly like to know what was old or partial information.

Was it Greg Fredericks and the Dateline expose?

Was it the point about the lack of transparency in how disputes are resolved?

Is there somewhere you can look to see the penalties that were accrued for breaking the rules?

What did I say that was outdated or partial?

I am certainly open to correction

Gary Butler said:
February 5, 2008 7:51 PM | #

Ray, your so full of yourself. I don't need a nosy IBO trying to feed his upline telling me what products I should buy. I know how to read and can do my own research thank you very much. Amway/Quaxlar/Name of the week products are higher priced because your feeding the Amway cash machine and lining their pockets.

Jeremy Pickering said:
February 17, 2008 9:46 PM | #

Hey Rocket, you forgot about the big picture.  That is, the fact that most IBO's are probably making more money and friends in this business then you ever will and feel good about helping people.  Why don't you find something else to [...].  There is a big world of very bad things that truly could use someone of your talents.

Editor's Note:
This comment has been edited in order to adhere to our comments policy.
-Katie Pearsall

rocket said:
February 18, 2008 9:17 PM | #

IBO's are probably making more friends and money than me?

1.  How do you know how much money I make or ever will make?

2.  How do you know how many friends I have.

Please have your upline re-think their canned responses before giving them to you to either use them in the wrong context, or argument.

I know the big picture Jeremy.  You are blissfully unaware of it, however.

Editor's Note:
OK guys, you've both made your points. Let's try to stay on topic from now on.

Bjorn said:
January 2, 2010 8:14 AM | #

I find these threads quite interesting but repetitive. Why are North Americans so consumed with price? Should you not look at the value and what comes with the product? In addition to both corporate and governmental fraud, the USA is now paying the price for wanting cheap products. Look at the current state of your economy. All your manufacturing jobs have now gone east and now you are crying about it. Now your Wal-marts don't look that great after all as selling cheaply made (imported) products have a direct negative effect on your economy, and because of this families all over are hurting more than ever. We over here in Europe look at Americans as consumers while the rest of the world are manufacturers. At some time it had to come back and bite you. At least Amway can support you with a business opportunity, more than a lot of these naysayers on the internet provide. And that is the point, a business. What you make of this business is entirely up to you. You can either hide behind a pc and point the blame or get off your backside and do something about it. It is that simple. At least Amway are a light in the middle of all this gloom. No business is perfect. I own four traditional businesses in addition to my Amway business and all have their challenges. I don't make a stash of cash from Amway (although that is possible), but what I do make pays for my family holiday each year and covers the cost of our own purchases. I challenge people to become a contributor rather than a complainer, that is what gets the job done.

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