Quixtar Ada-tudes: A View from the Top : Thank You for Being Part of the Conversation

Thank You for Being Part of the Conversation

Thursday, August 16, 2007 by Jim Payne
Category: Quixtar Strategy, Transparency, Innovation, Quixtar Philosophy

Doug DeVos, Steve Van Andel, and myself just finished a six city tour around North America. We met with hundreds of Emerald pins and above. We want to say thank you for giving up your time to come and meet with us. The purpose of the tour was to talk to leaders about the transformation of our business going forward, to answer as many questions as possible, and to let you all know how much we appreciate all that you are doing for the business.

A couple of thoughts resulting from this tour:

While there are many questions about the transformation of our business, we know that we are in an exciting period in the history of our business. We are making unprecedented investments to make your business better, including more than $60 Million in new money for the Quixtar Business Incentives program, the launch of new training programs to help make IBOs more successful, and exciting new product launches. Overall, the company is spending more than $200 million in product development, brand building, training, and compensation enhancements to make this business bigger and better than ever.

We heard the good, the bad, and yes, even the ugly on this tour. It was important to hear what IBOs had to say as honest and as passionately as they meant them. As Doug said, "There is no bad meeting as long as we are talking". That is the key, we need to continue the conversation. We may not always agree but we need to keep talking. We are not perfect, no one is.

It was good to hear IBOs’ thoughts about the business and how this business has positively changed their lives over the years. It was also good for us to hear how we can help IBOs through this transformation going forward. While we are committed to the transformation, we heard some idea's on how we can help IBOs make the transition. We will be getting back to you on these ideas in the next few months. It was good for us to hear your passion about the business because your passion and commitment to this business is what makes it so great.

Unfortunately, in these fast paced times, we do not stop and say thank you to others as often as we should, whether it is our family, our friends, or our business partners. It is also unfortunate that a few IBOs and employees sometimes hurt the real spirit and appreciation for this business. I think it is important for all of you to know how much all of us at the company appreciate all that you do, respect all that you have given to this business, and understand that we need each other to build this business even bigger and better in the future.

Thank you and all the best,

Jim

Comments

Chris said: August 16, 2007 5:37 PM | #

"We heard the good, the bad, and yes, even the ugly on this tour"

The Good and Bad is really about perception I am sure on both sides of the fence there is both good and bad through this situation...However, lets address the ugly...what kind of company acts like little 2 year olds, if the author of the blogs we have seen is acting on his own i would say he should be fired. I can't wait to see how this all plays out, I would imagine there will be some hefty fines put on to Quixtar or I guess i should say AMWAY by the way if i am not mistaken I would say that AMWAY's name came from the "American Way" is that how we do it here in America is slander the folks or is that why we have courts...You guys at Corp have shown that you have small brains and can't think past your emotional connections to this. What a pathetic way to run a company...by the way "First and last names are encouraged" not going to happen what are you going to do pull my IBO ship as well for having a mind

Chuck Lia said: August 16, 2007 6:54 PM | #

Chris,

I'm having a hard seeing much difference between your immature, almost hysterical, rant on this blog thread and the ones on the Alticor blog you so vehemently attack for being so far out of line. Speaking of two year olds...

ibofightback said: August 16, 2007 6:58 PM | #

Jim,

Early I posted the following on my site -

Alticor - there is one more contract you need to terminate, and fast

I'm thus pleased to see your comment recognizing that some employees are hurting the spirit of this business -

It is also unfortunate that a few IBOs and employees sometimes hurt the real spirit and appreciation for this business. I think it is important for all of you to know how much all of us at the company appreciate all that you do, respect all that you have given to this business, and understand that we need each other to build this business even bigger and better in the future.

I have never been less than the impressed by the professionalism shown by yourself and the other bloggers on this site, in particular the "old-timers" of Beth Dornan and Robin Luymes. They are a credit to the company.

It is a shame that many IBOs have had their first introduction to the company's "internet outreach" program through the recent Alticor blog postings, they have a long way to go to approach the standard of OZ.

XLNC said: August 16, 2007 7:07 PM | #

It's good to see leaders of a mutli-billion dollar company willing to get out in the field and solicit feedback. Obviously not everyone is going to agree with your direction or your opinions. And some will be overly supportive. The point is that you make the connection and don't live in ivory towers. Kudos.

And Chris, simmer dude. Not sure what your point was but geez, leave that language for some blogspot post.

pedro said: August 16, 2007 7:34 PM | #

Chris,

Who's acting like a two year old here? Jim Payne should be fired? That sounds like slander to me?

You know what, if you have a problem solve it period. You don't have to kick and scream and create problems for everyone else.

Jim,

Thank you for taking your time to hear from the leaders of this business. You're absolutely right that the conversation needs to continue.

However, I believe that more needs to be said about the other aspects of the transformation-not just the name change.

I'm talking about the new products that are supposed to attract more clients to the business. What is being considered here, and what can IBOs expect?

The XS concentrated syrup line is genius. I, personaly, would like to see more branding and expansion in this area. What do you think?

Brooke Rivera said: August 16, 2007 8:46 PM | #

Chris, it seems you don't understand the process of free enterprise and and how it applies to the Quixtar/Amway business model- that is to SERVE people with a product or service that they willingly pay for and from which they experience a benefit, and teach/train/coach others to do the same and, in due season, become successful if there is effort on the part of each IBO to serve people properly and desire to add value the their IBO/clients' lives. If IBO's simply abide by the rules, all will benefit. You seem to have trouble with authority and legal/ethical business practices. We all should continually search our hearts to make sure we are operating our independent businesses this way. Thanks to all who still desire to be above reproach and keep this opportunity great for the newest IBO!!

Chaitanya said: August 16, 2007 9:46 PM | #

Thank you Jim!

We are waiting for Amway!

Most of us here in India are very excited - One name around the world!

Every great organization will face challenges at one time or the other - and people will slander them at such times! But what comes after such corporations overcome those challenges is more important!

The very same people will then line up to be a part of the very corp. they once hated!

And when you decide to go back to the roots, you need to work with single minded determination!

You should have a disregard for what others say!

You need to pursue it with all your passion!

I think that's what Alticor is doing!

They'll always be doubters and naysayers during such times. History has shown that it's always better to ignore them than addressing their concerns!

Your intentions are good!

The compensation is great!

You are cleaning up the house - which is good!

You are bringing on training programs that will help us create more profit!

You are talking to us!

Ha yes! someimes you'll have IBOs and employees messing things up!

The best time to work is when the sun hasn't risen!

And the best time to stick with a corp is when it's having a challenge and when it's addressing them!!!!!

Christian IBO said: August 16, 2007 9:52 PM | #

After reading what Jim Payne wrote I am not pleased with the morality of this company. The American Way....Christian Values....Hipocrites!! I really didn't care either way until I realized that Quixtar management aren't good people... How can I trust them now?

Craig Eddy said: August 16, 2007 10:08 PM | #

Mega Kudos to Alticor for allowing comments such as Chris' to be posted.

I completely disagree with his post, mind you, but the fact that they're not censoring some of the more outrageous comments says a TON about the credibility of Alticor.

true said: August 16, 2007 10:09 PM | #

XLNC: They came out in the field and solicited feedback, AFTER they decided to change from Quixtar to Amway without asking North American IBO's if they wanted to be Amway Distributors. I guess they just think of us as a sales force and nothing more. I do not know about the rest of the country, but in Californoa Amway has a REALLY bad reputation.

Brenda in California said: August 16, 2007 10:56 PM | #

I think I'm going to be sick.... *retching* ... all fluffy and sweet, like they care. What's not being written is, "as long as you don't do ANY talking, we'll keep talking to you! And if you disagree, we'll terminate your business"

chris said: August 17, 2007 12:17 AM | #

Brooke, this has nothing to do with authority or rules, it is all about handling it with adult minds or children small minds quixtar has chosen to use propaganda and slander similure to kids in a playground. it is childish and wrong

Don Osborne said: August 17, 2007 12:29 AM | #

Chris maybe the very Disclaimer of this blog:

"The authors of this blog are Quixtar employees. The opinions expressed here are not necessarily reviewed in advance by anyone but the individual authors. These opinions do not necessarily reflect the view of Quixtar or any other person or company." will remind you that all regular bloggers already know "opinion expressed" is as legitmate for the blogger as it is for the commenter. This is not an official statement blog, it's one of opinion. Don't like the opinion or language/tone used to express it, comment - don't complain. If "the author acting on his own should be fired" ( that's blog authoring) then we'd have no blog and your comment won't count either. But, since a blog is a blog, this one and the others featured as part of the Opportunity Zone are doing exactly what they're entitled to do. And, so are you! Not sure what your first - last name concern is. Having been a registered distributor and ibo since 1978 I've yet to have my business "pulled" for having a mind or speaking it.

Zack said: August 17, 2007 12:29 AM | #

Interesting timing on all the changes.

I don't need more top quality products, we are not rich. We cannot buy all top quality for everything.

I don't need more products. The selection is overwhelming.

Only change I'd like to see is some decent pricing on decent products so I can retail.

jay said: August 17, 2007 12:37 AM | #

You got to spend a lot of time with Doug and Steve on that trip, and my guess would be that the majority of that time was spent talking about the TEAM situation. The rest of your trip is not near as hot a topic, I think everyone is more curious about how the discussions you had about TEAM went. I am with TEAM and I am still patiently waiting on the more information promised in your email.

Steve said: August 17, 2007 2:00 AM | #

First, I believe Chris is referring to firing the employee that wrote the recent posts over at the Alticor Media Blog NOT Jim Payne unless of course Jim wrote those posts. Since the employee didn't put their name we can't be for sure. I doubt Jim wrote them though.

I agree though, that employee should be fired...very unprofessional.

Karyl Baker said: August 17, 2007 7:18 AM | #

Wish Quixtar had lower prices to compete with Wal-mart? You betcha I do! But I've come to realize one big thing during my last two years on the TEAM - - Quixtar has NEVER lied to me. The "good Christian" men's TEAM leadership has been lying to me off and on since BEFORE I signed up with them. It started with them telling me that I would not be a Quixtar employee - the TEAM just "uses" their infrastructure.

I will be happy to stay with Quixtar and hopefully relearn how to run my business the Quixtar/legal/moral way.

BTW, I have yet to hear one word of any of this debacle from my upline. Quixtar has been the one keeping me informed.

Brad said: August 17, 2007 9:56 AM | #

I'm flat-out amazed at the lack of real, transparent, open, meaningful, and professional response from Quixtar. Here, we are thanked for "being part of the conversation" instead of being presented with facts; in another blog, the "Copy Director of Communications for Quixtar Inc" has the time to remind us to "breathe" and relax, but no one has yet taken the time to present facts, arguments, nor rebuttals to the real issue at stake. Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, and Chuck Goetschel are (were, now) not fringe representatives of shrinking businesses. They are respected leaders whose very

names in this debate give any points they are making

credibility. These blogs have either completely dodged these very important issues or have posted character attacks. No facts, no "here are claims and counterclaims" to let us decide, as mature adults, for ourselves. If any lawsuit is frivolous, then publishing it intact will let everyone see that fact quickly.

TEAM supporter said: August 17, 2007 10:26 AM | #

Karyl, from your statement "It started with them telling me that I would not be a Quixtar employee - the TEAM just "uses" their infrastructure." That's the truth. You are not a Quixtar employee. You do use their infrastructure only. Quixtar is just the supplier for your business. They don't train on depth building, teach the process, show plans for you, do follow throughs, help you sponsor... nada, nothing. So you are misunderstood. The TEAM didn't lie to you if this is your only instance. Quixtar/AMWAY will not lower prices because if they did, it would reduce the 35% profit on every item the families receive. They want their profits. So good luck with building your moral/legal AMWAY business.... I tried the non-team way and failed miserably.

whatever said: August 17, 2007 12:47 PM | #

Jim Payne wrote: "We will be getting back to you on these ideas in the next few months."

Isnt that what Orrin and Chris have in there leagal complaints that your motto is We will be getting back to you. Then you hope the passion for the moment cools and the complaining remain.

The truth is all of your incentives are for people who already get incentives. There is nothing for incentive for retention of IBO's below 25%, or really 12% where they have to brunt the reallity of your over pricing.

DO SOMETHING NOW!!!

Lee Ziegler said: August 17, 2007 2:12 PM | #

Thank you for meeting with the leaders, that alone shows that Doug and Steve are interested in what we think should happen during this exciting time in the history of this great company. The only reason some of you are so fired up about the name change is because you ran around for the last 8 years denying any connection to the Amway name.If you would have told the truth and educated people you wouldn't have any problem with the transformation.

robinm said: August 17, 2007 2:22 PM | #

I don't know who is right or wrong. All I know for sure is that when the name "Amway" is mentioned....any prostects vanish before your eyes. And that IS the truth for myself and downline. No one has anything bad to say about the products, just the company name and it's past actions. So now where do we go??? My heart is broken with the negative ....sounds like another bad presidential campaign ....so sorry.

Grant said: August 17, 2007 2:30 PM | #

Karyl--

You've heard nothing from TEAM because Quixtar/Amway has put a gag order on them. Q/A can say whatever they want about TEAM, but your upline is forbidden to speak with you.

And, your TEAM upline is correct in stating you are not an employee of Quixtar. By Quixtar's own definition, you theoretically run your own business, "powered by Quixtar." I just hope they do the right thing now that they are moving to the future by "transforming" into Amway by giving us, the "Independent" business owners, the opportunity to leave with no strings attached.

I personally have no problem with the Amway name, but millions of people do, and I signed up for Quixtar, not Amway. It will NEVER be a viable opportunity in the United States again (except for the DeVos and VanAndel families).

Quixtar hasn't lied to you as far as you know.

Amy Berger said: August 17, 2007 2:53 PM | #

I have been an IBO since 1989 and am an Emerald in the business. Because I have built the business with width and depth, I have always been profitable. My check comes the same time every month and company support has always been there for me. I attended the Emerald and above meeting in NJ last week and was totally impressed with the way Doug, Steve and Jim handled themselves during the meeting. As a mom who has built the business as a professional choice, I have had the free time since 1992 to raise our children and help my elderly parents. No other opportunity has ever presented that would do this for me. Thanks to everyone at Quixtar/Amway for giving me the life I've had. Having worked prior in an emergency room - I saw first hand that time is something you don't get back. To IBOs everywhere, please don't waste precious time trying to figure all of this out - keep building or in the end you will just be hurting yourself!

Beryl Nichols said: August 17, 2007 2:54 PM | #

Brad,

I read the complaint and Quixtar's answer by the filing of a temporary restraining order in court. I'm sorry Brad, but it is very clear what is going on and I respect Quixtar for not perpetuating arguments on something that will be settled in court. TEAM leadership clearly was in violation of Quixtar's Rules of Conduct.....and they know it. Period! Quixtar has worked with those "respected leaders" for six years that I know of in an effort to persuade them to come in to line with Quixtar's rules, to no avail. So, they are beginning to "reap what they have been sowing!" They evidently feel they have enough money and lawyers to prove WRONG IS RIGHT. We will see, in the courts. Alticor/Amway/Quixtar will fight for what is right and I respect their position because it is the right position for all of us that pride ourselves in doing what is right 100% of the time.

michael said: August 17, 2007 3:36 PM | #

Amy - are you part of a support team with your emeraldship?

Beryl - what you said sounds like it could be true but would like to experience first hand.

In the "Open Opportunity Meetings" that the support teams I have worked with, they have presented it as my own business, Q being the company that is a supplier + infrastructure.... but they HAVE told the guests at the meetings that Quixtar is the name of the supplier.....

I WANT TO KNOW CLEARLY AND VIVIDLY HOW "TEAM" BUILT THEIR BUSINESS DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER SUPPORT SYSTEMS? Did they not use the SA document?

Ohio IBO said: August 17, 2007 4:32 PM | #

Beryl ---

1. Were you in any of the meetings between the Corporation and TEAM leadership?

2. Are you in posession of the TEAM registration packet?

If not, you're making assumptions --- Period!

You really should learn a little emotional maturity and not judge someone, or a group of someones, based on your own ignorant presumptions. Is this what you refer to as "doing what is right 100% of the time?" What a joke

California said: August 17, 2007 8:05 PM | #

Beryl --

How was the TEAM in violation anyway?

Well, as far as the accused "stacking" is concerned, it was approved by Quixtar. Here's the proof of the approved SA 4400 http://www.iboai.com/images/LNBHPS212009.pdf http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/dci/dci_custom_sa4400.pdf

Hmmm... who's telling the truth now?

Beryl Nichols said: August 17, 2007 10:05 PM | #

Ohio IBO: I get what you are saying. If someone has an opinion and a thought process different from yours, they must be emotionally immature and ignorant. Well, sir, I have dealt with the leadership of the corporation over thirty years and I have gained a great deal of respect for the way the leadership does business. I don't have to "assume" they made valid decisions before terminating successful leaders. Read both sides of the issue. It is in print on this web site. Read the comments made by alot of IBO's of the TEAM organization on this site and it appears that some of them didn't even know that they were in Quixtar or whom to talk to. Don't you wonder what causes that to happen with the "relationship specialists?"

It would take a "mental midget" not to be able to see what is going on here. Now, TEAM is going to be forced to go do it their way and that is only right. But they are going to have to do it without "raiding" the Quixtar LOS....get your line of "cheap" products ready and I wish you well....WalMart is too big anyway. God speed.

P.S. Why don't any of you guys use your names? I think I know, but I will wait for your answer.

Lynn Louis said: August 17, 2007 11:22 PM | #

I have about had it!!! We have been associated with the Team Leadership for a long time. We have seen Quixtar reps come into our meetings and teach the rules regarding depth building vs. stacking. They provided our own SA4400 that complemented our Team approach to building depth. We have seen the Team require paper registrations for quite some time (a couple of years, maybe) -- now we see that it will be required of everyone. We have materials that Q reviewed and approved recently. We have new IBO surveys asking if they knew they were going to be affiliated wtih Quixtar, if they knew their sponsor, etc. We have seen a Q rep attend the last several major functions. The Team has bent over backward to work with Quixtar to accommodate concerns. It is Quixtar that is re-writing history. I am so disappointed in how the Corporation is responding.

Check out the following website: http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24

Regarding prices: I am a stay-at-home mom who is concerned about providing the things my family needs. But your diapers are twice the price as store brands -- and there is no noticeable performance difference. That's just one example. Yes, you have some great quality cookware, water treatment, etc. But the consumable, everyday products need to be more reasonable.

Finally, I would love to sign my name -- but I am afraid I will get a threatening phone call.

Josh said: August 18, 2007 12:08 AM | #

For all of those that are complaining about the name of Amway, let's get some perspective here.

Was it Amway per se that created that bad reputation? Or was it individuals misrepresenting the opportunity? IBOs like you and me?

I believe it was the part of past IBOs and their actions that created the bad reputation. I don't think it was anything Amway did or taught that alienated people from the business or the name. Amway gives you products and pays you nicely for volume. They never really jumped into the teaching aspect. Unfortunately now they have to, when certain individuals misrepresent this opportunity. (ie. Never mentioning Quixtar or Amway until the last minute, claiming they worked all the deals with XS and the like, stacking people inproperly--yes you can do it properly).

Reprimanding those people, or terminating them, is Amway attempt to recover their name and reputation. Once people know there is a right way and a wrong way to present the business, and consequences that are being enforced, that will be the first step toward repairing the damaged name! Doing it publicly (except for the knuckle head on Alticor blog) will also help this cause!!

Keep up the good work!! Thank you Quixtar

Bizman said: August 18, 2007 12:43 AM | #

In answer to the question above, Team's version of the SA4400 does NOT show the Quixtar name on it anywhere. To me that seems deceptinve, but on the other hand, their version had been approved by the corp, so whose fault is that? To one degree or another, both sides have contributed to the situation we are in now.

john said: August 18, 2007 1:55 AM | #

WAKE UP GUYS(Doug & Steve)! Can you not see the implications of the TOTAL stupidity that is happening in this lawsuit. YOU guys act like LIBERALS who think we are stupid and blind to the TRUTH. Can you not see the parallel to Talk Radio and the Blogs. YOU GUYS are LOOKING STUPID and EVERYONE but YOU knows it!!!

Its Time to put an end to this! STOP IT NOW BEFORE IBO's DREAMS GET FLUSHED!!!

History will record this and YOU one of two ways. YOU decide NOW. Corporate Crusader who put aside the interests of the Corp. for the IBO, much like the Statue in the Center of Free Enterprise, or GOAT!!!!!!!

Chaitanya said: August 18, 2007 9:20 AM | #

For me the Amway name is magic!!

Wow!! Some of the greatest products on this planet - made just for me or others like me!!

My brand!! My very own brand - AMWAY!

All those excellent manufacturing facilities, all those R & D facilities - just for me! All that huge infrastructure is in place to serve one person - Me!!

That huge and able Legal department is in place too - to serve my interests and Amway's!!

Why wouldn't I build this business?

Why wouldn't I be proud of Amway?

Why won't I use these products in my own home?

Why wouldn't I sell these products to a billion others?

Why?

Regardless of what my system teaches I begin my plan by telling them that I hv come to show them the AMWAY business!! No one ever vanished!

Some time next year I'm gonna come to California, you say Amway has bad reputation there is it?

Give me the list of those who vanished and I'll tell them what Amway is - and I promise you none of them will vanish this time!!

I don't know if David Copperfield's magic works or not but my Amway magic will always work, coz there's no trick in it - but simple plain truth!!

Daid Edmondson said: August 18, 2007 11:16 AM | #

Amazing, we have a great forum here to voice our opinions. I am just in shock at the mud slinging at each other simply over some one voicing their opinion. Now remember opinion is your view of the facts, which should never be name calling or the actual judging of others. However, just look at the posts on here.

In my journey of personal developement, one thing i continue to hear on the cd's and tapes is relationships. Making a difference in other people's lives. I really am shocked at the hostility voiced here. Time and time again judgement is passed. Only ONE has the power to judge.

Sometimes agreeing to disagree can work too!

true said: August 18, 2007 1:49 PM | #

Beryl Nichols, First they sign a Quixtar Application and get an intro pack from Quixtar, how does anyone not tell then they are in Quixtar. After 13 years building a Amway/Quixtar/Amway business using only APPROVED tools and defending the name Alticor treats us like we are 5 year olds. Just let us make up our own minds if we want to be Amway Distributors again or not.

P.S. I do not us my name because I'm see first hand how Alticor is acting. Good Luck Beryl.

Beryl Nichols said: August 18, 2007 7:06 PM | #

Kudos Chaitanya!!!

A person never gets anywhere majoring on the MINORS! Paul Conn did a tape years ago. Everytime a fire truck goes down the street, all the dogs in the neighborhood followed the fire truck yapping and barking like dogs do. Does the fire truck stop to address the barking of a dog? "The Dogs Bark...But The Caravan Moves On." We have gone through times like this several times in years passed. In the 80's Rich DeVos did a series of tapes called Directly Speaking which addressed issues regarding tools and running illegal businesses, in an effort to clean up the abuses by shedding light on what was happening. But some people are Independent (IBO) enough that they resist doing what is right and do their own thing regardless of what the rules are. These 15 distributorships are not the first to have to leave. But Rich DeVos has been blamed for not doing enough fast enough. We are IBO adults, fully capable of making the right decisions. It is surely not Rich's job or responsibility to change anyone's diaper for them.

If you can't go upline and get your questions answered, you have come face to face with the problem at hand. You don't have to stay with a leader that is not doing the right thing....lay out 6 mos. and follow the integrity and above all. Watch who you turn your brain over to. Trust but verify!!

The employee moderating the Alticor blog is taking heat for what was posted. Remember he/she is not Alticor. They are just employees trying to let you get if off your chest.

Keep the Faith

Brad Obert said: August 19, 2007 12:22 AM | #

It is very frustrating. A custom SA-4400 that TEAM or DCI used, approved by the corporation. Now terminations and resignations for "breaking" rules. I wonder if the "Emerald" in earlier comments would have such love for the corporation if they decided to terminate her. Accusing her of violations, restraining order so you can't talk about it, and filing lawsuits or countersuits to keep you very busy. I wonder if your opinion would change.

More questions and comments.

1. Who gets a pay raise by terminating IBO's? The IBO or the corporation?

2. The corporation spent 6 years "Trying" to work with these guys? I've been "in" for 11 years. Never heard a peep.

3. Is the custom SA-4400 really approved by the corporation? (It was.)

4. Is there incentive for competing IBO leadership in other "systems" to be behind the terminations?

5. Why the rush to change the name back to Amway?

Mike said: August 19, 2007 1:03 PM | #

Jim,

Thank you for moving in the right direction.

As far as transformations, can you please work on the personal website project. This is a tool that can move product into a retail consumers hand like never before. The personal websites currently offered are bad to say the least. The images look like a bad version of a JC Penny catalog from 1985 and the inability to brand the site with an IBO's business name creates a bad vibe and looks very homemade.

Please have something that will appeal to the top categories of people. From simple to edgy (think..what would apple do?).

Focus on this platform....PLEASE.

Thanks.

Mike.

Beryl Nichols said: August 19, 2007 7:05 PM | #

Brad, I believe that if the IBO's in TEAM, like yourself, built their business using the approved custom SA-4400 they wouldn't have heard a peep either. The corporation would not terminate those IBO's without cause. They are NOT mental midgets as some would think. The corporation pays its bills with profits and they are not likely to put everyone at risk because of the actions of the few.

Consider this. The typical IBO has NO IDEA what it takes to pay the bills every month, let alone the bonuses. I've seen it written many times that the "families keep getting richer". We have to remember that Amway is privately owned by the families. They don't increase their wealth without profits to the IBO's first. How would the corporation get a pay raise by terminating IBO's that created the business. By not having to pay bonuses for one month? The corporation is not that short sighted, I assure you. The corporation has a problem, created by a few, that they will deal with. They will not roll over for a dollar. This is the kind of disturbance that alot of people think Amway is all about and that is a crying shame.

I have personally watched people in the Amway business lie, cheat and steal to keep from telling the truth about what they were doing. Just keep them excited and stupid till we get their money, then maybe we can convince them to do the same. PSHAW

It is a difficult situation to deal with an uncooperative IBO, because they are independent. But Quixtar is not compelled to ship product to anybody that won't abide by Quixtar rules. That is FAIR for both sides.

Michael Jones said: August 20, 2007 1:34 PM | #

This is from IBOfacts.com

What will we say?

Question 19:

Aren't Amway and Quixtar really the same?

No, Quixtar and Amway are sister companies and subsidiaries of their parent company, Alticor Inc., a global enterprise doing business in manufacturing, marketing, logistics, and product and business development.

Quixtar was started in 1999 and offers entrepreneurs in North America a unique business model over the Internet. Amway was started in 1959 and continues today in 80 countries and territories outside of North America, using its traditional sales, marketing, and distribution model. Both use a similar Independent Business Ownership Plan, but operations are very different. Because they are so different, Quixtar has its own name and brand identity.

Michael Jones said: August 20, 2007 1:46 PM | #

TEAM reminds me of the SouthPark episode where they joined a cult, doing whatever they were told to do.

Right now TEAM is sending out communications to their team to blog, etc.... trying to organize their little army to trash Quixtar and Amway. The messages they are sending out right now to their downline is sad.

TEAM has now become their enemy. They have judged their critics as negative, biased, broke, etc... now they are behaving in the exact same way as their former critics.....

Their blog tells people to not post rudely... (unless it is anti-quixtar)

I am starting to see why TEAM is gone. They have been acting independly for long enough time, they deserve to go!

Quixtar and Amway will be fine b/c of the IBO's - they can sell snow to an eskimo.

Tex said: August 20, 2007 3:19 PM | #

Michael,

We will say much of the rest of the world has caught up with the internet model, and it now makes sense to have one name.

I'm sure they will delete/adjust this question/answer at the right time.

Beryl Nichols said: August 20, 2007 4:08 PM | #

It is really sad when people ban together to TRY to destroy what is good, just because they decided not to follow the rules they agreed to in the first place. All this is a clear effort to deceive. What do people think when you tell a story one way and then do business another? Go upline and ask the tough questions. Be sure to watch their eyes when they answer (you may need a polygraph operator to get this accomplished) the questions. I am so fortunate to not have EVER had to deal with integrity issues like this.

Tex said: August 20, 2007 9:01 PM | #

Beryl,

You DO have to deal with integrity issues like this. Perhaps not in obvious ways, but directly nevertheless. These issues affect all of us, through reputation, legal costs that must be paid for with higher product costs, etc.

A few of the literally millions of IBO's such as myself who have been abused by the high tool prices and massive tool profits for the upline have been vocal, and more folks such as yourself should be vocal as well.

I have gone upline and asked tough questions. I have gone on numerous blogs and asked tough questions. I have been doing it for over 2 years, and STILL don't know what is going to happen. I just got the standard non-answer from the IBOAI blog today regarding tool profits.

Am I discouraged at times? You bet.

Am I EVER going to give up, and allow the abuse to continue? Not a chance.

Lynn Louis said: August 21, 2007 12:17 AM | #

Check this out! Doesn't sound like conversation is really what they want! http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=101

jd said: August 21, 2007 12:34 AM | #

Where to begin...

Was any of the 6 city tour and the emeralds they met with involved with the Team or any organization affiliated with their training system? Probably not. There are a lot more than 6 major cities in our country. As for no bad meetings as long as we are all talking, it is a bad meeting if there is no action to back it up, as with many meetings with the IBOAI board and leaders of it. Only talk. Especially on the required training all will have to receive. And as for the employee that posted it with only his first name - I am pretty sure that when people submit a blog you capture the i.p. You could find out, but that might mean more shakeup on high.

Jim, I wonder how all these months dealing with Ron Simmons how you can now come out and say these things. I guess it was just a front. The truth will come out though.

Chaitanya, good luck on India. I know the families will make a lot of money off your country. When Amway started here, it was much the same. Great products. A great name - the American Way. Great pricing. However, over 20 or so years, it changed. People found out about the leadership of the company. That is why Quixtar was formed. All major leaders were going to walk away. I guess the corporation did it to appease the ones that made them rich long enough to get international operations big enough that losing America won't hurt their lifestyle to much. Now that they make a couple billion dollars off of others like you, they don't need us anymore. Unfortunately, I fear the same fate awaits you long term. Wait until the corporation buys a company in your country that competes with your product. They have done that here with buying a cosmetics line that is sold in Saks and Neiman Marcus. I have close friends that have invested 20 years in this business, and are now not renewing. They are getting jobs because they know that Amway will not work here. Amway may be good for you, but not in USA where over 85% of the people have a disdain for that name. As for those that the name will line up to be a part of them - that will never happen with me or the people I know. And if an Amway distributor (a.k.a. employee) comes to my door, I will listen to them, and then show them the comments from the corporation, and let them see the type of people they are making rich.

True, it's not just California. Texas, Louisiana, Florida, Arkansas, pretty much from the Redwood Forests to the Gulf Stream Waters, this land isn't made for Amway. And I'm glad you know how the Team process works - people know they are joining a team with a business powered by Quixtar - even though those not on the Team want to state otherwise.

Beryl, all I can say is, you know nothing about Team. However, I do know that a lot of organizations in Quixtar d that Team had double to triple the growth and volume of any other organization. As for the corporation terminating them, the Team leaders, with an attorney present, submitted a list of demands after years of empty promises, which was simple - allow them to leave and give all in their organizations the right to leave if they so choose. The corporation attorneys left, and came back terminating them. They knew it was over, so they took the shot. However, since then, the corporation you so love gave lines to all Team Platinums and above, which was postponed for court proceedings, to stop using all tools and support materials. Basically, default on your contract where you promised the IBO you sponsored to provide them with the tools and support system necessary to build this business. Also, you replied to a lot of others posts except the one from California, which showed that the Team system of building depth was approved. Why is that? Cat get your tongue? Oh, I would also recommend checking the link that Lynn Louis posted. Some very powerful information. Of course, you can continue to believe what the corporation is feeding you - they've made a lot of money off of you for 30 years, and you probably have never said a word, so you're still safe. And as for the families only making money when the IBO's do, not when they own the "manufacturing" step of Access Business Group who sells the products to Alticor/Quixtar at a handsome profit. What are the IBO's to do - give up on their dream, or pay more and more. And now, of course, since they bought another cosmetics company a year ago, they are putting us in competition with themselves. They say it's quality and you pay for it, so we need to not sell to the people shopping at Wal-Mart. Go to Neiman Marcus or Saks. The company (Alticor) owns a makeup line in those stores. And as for never having to deal with integrity issues, I guess not if you believe everything you are told.

Amy, an Emerald after that long? That's cool if that is all you want. You got your money, your a stay at home mom, and if that's as big as your dream is then congratulations. However, if you really care about people, why not help others achieve freedom? I would strongly challenge you to try to go Diamond or EDC with Amway. I just don't think you can in this country. But good luck to you. As prices continue to go up, let's see what happens to your volume. And to that 1,000 pin trying to build the business under Amway, and who walks, how many will it take before you are no longer an Emerald?

Michael, as an IBO affiliated with Team, we have been told to not say mean things about the corporation. We are all being advised to get all the facts and make our own decision. Doesn't sound much like a to me. I wonder where you get this stuff from, though.

Mike, as for the personal website, we have friends who we go to church with, many professionals - CPA's, attorneys, doctors, engineers, who have looked at our personal sites and have said the stuff is overpriced. Not people who shop at Wal-Mart. I'm more concerned with stuff priced that can be moved.

Guys, if Quixtar was really confident this was the best opportunity out there and really wanted happy IBO's, why would they be so against those who want to leave to be given the option to leave and if they so desire start another business? Why not tell all IBO's on the Team and all others with organizations affiliated with them that they can choose to leave and join another business if they so desire? What has built my business is my relationships developed with people because I have learned how to build relationships because of this training system. Being a high Choleric, I have a lot of growing to do. I have grown some, and as I have, because of the system, not the products, I have grown my business. Is the corporation going to pull a new IBO at 300 p.v. aside and tell them they need to read Positive Personality Profiles or Personality Plus or How to Win Friends and Influence People? No, they're going to tell them to get out there and go selling, wasting their time because you have to be relatable first. It's about people, not products. You won't sell snow to someone in Phoenix if you have no people skills.

Chaitanya said: August 21, 2007 11:04 AM | #

Hii all!

These are interesting times for me!

With respect to price - I hv a short story to tell!

A few years back the detergent war hottened up here in India. About 4 major companies that were in the detergent industry began reducing the prices of their products one by one. This continued for sometime.

The consumers were happy - the retailers were happy coz the consumers were happy. But somewhere down the line those major corp.s found out this whole price war was hurting their business in a big way and the prices came back to what they were before the price wars! The same thing is happening with the Cellular operators now - they hv increased their prices! Infact I even read a study report by a famous business school about this whole issue! Price Reduction is not the key!

here's a link: http://www.financialexpress.com/news/story/101146/

Jd: I'm not worried about Amway buying other companies in India. This is the reason: http://www.amwayindia.com/htmls/amway-ntwrk-mncs.html

Like I said these are interesting times!

For some they may be frustrating!

When people see Amway, they see it thru you and me, not thru Jim payne or Doug DeVos.

So if people have a negative attitude, then it's you and me who is to be blamed - it's the leaders that guided us who should be blamed!

If it was just the price then the only thing you might hear is that the products are too costly - that's all!

But that's not the only thing you hear, is it?

My theory is simple: If it's us responsible for creating this negative image then it's upto us to rub it away too!

How???

First by simply being honest.

Began by telling them that you are there in their home to show them the AMWAY business.

Ask them if they want to know more.

Give them some product samples.

If they say 'no', thank them and leave!

Yes! some of them may run away!

May be most of them will run away!

But some of them will listen.

Some of them will understand that I'm doing it a different way - the honest way - and then the juggernaut will start rolling!

That's how I'm building my business!

The benefits - the corp. - the plan and the support!

That's all you need to show them!

And when you do that magic happens - and you will love the business then - they will love the business then!

thanx

jthompson said: August 21, 2007 2:34 PM | #

I remember when i went to a seminar when i was 18 - learning about human behavior and human emotion. We learned about what makes us feel the way we do. we have 5 physical senses. On of them is kinethetic (spelling?). the tension of how we use are body greatly effects our emotional state. Intense Pain and Instense Pleasure have almost the exact body languages in terms of tenstion and submodalities for mental focus. I understand how TEAM or any IBO can in one week switch from being positive to negative. Amway/Quixtar and its Teams are Controversial. TEAM ibos went to the negative websites before but interpreted it as pro-amway. Now they interpret it all as anti amway.

ken shinn said: August 21, 2007 10:34 PM | #

Your lawyers and your Corporate Ceo's and such are fools--Chuck Goetschel, Chris Brady and Orrin Woodward have too much to lose--! Public opinion is huge in the face to face business-and with the growing technology--NEGATIVE travels worlwide at the speed of touch!-I love the exclusive products and will be buying them at Walmart made in China-if you do not see the writing on the wall. I was hopeful and in Alticor's corner thinking that my "compassionate capitalism" and all those tapes and books from Rich and Jay, that we were all going to work through this. With my eyes closed like Dorothy in The Wizard of OZ -I clicked my heels and kept repeating, "say it ani't so, Say it ain't so, say it ain't so"--but after reading Chuck Goetschels impassioned blog post, I was devastated. After twenty years of belief in Britt and his leaders (seeing several of them fall) and now to learn that people who do not even "know" this type of direct home-based business are making the unintelligent and downright deceptive decisions of bringing back the Amway name-Nobody ever said it up front in 20 years because the prospects did not know what they did not know! 20 products should be a no brainer--In the beginning there were less than five products and folks got rich--but their children forgot!!!! LET US GO NOW OR --worldwide you will fail because of the internet that you so desired for your baby --Quixtar!

rdknyvr said: August 22, 2007 2:49 AM | #

Ken, as you well know, you can go at any time, no one his holding you back. Just a quick letter of resignation, don't register with a competing MLM business for 6 months, and then do what you want. And don't come back to solicite your former downline to join you in your new venture for 2 years, and don't use the Quixtar-owned database of those people's names to do so -- pretty standard non-compete that you signed, and I signed, and everyone else signed when we joined, or renewed. There are thousands of others you can go after in that time and be uber successful in whatever new venture you choose, before you come back for those you left behind.

This myth about Quixtar not letting you leave is a hoot, or would be if it wasn't such an intentional and deliberate misleading mis-statement of the facts.

Tex said: August 22, 2007 9:08 AM | #

ken,

And Quixtar DOESN'T have more more to lose?

Tex said: August 22, 2007 1:10 PM | #

Oops, I said "more more", one "more" was enough.

Perhaps "much more" would be more accurate.

Im.a.believer said: August 23, 2007 9:26 AM | #

rdknyvr -- The problem here is that we DID NOT sign that agreement. It did not exist until three years ago, well after I joined the business. It was added without much notice. Oh yes, I'm supposed to read the compendium/rules EVERY year before I renew, just to make sure I'm up on everything. And if the rules change AFTER I've built the business for three years, I just walk away.

The other problem is that I registered with Quixtar, NOT Amway. I relied on the TEAM training system, which was just fine with Quixtar until August 2007. The rules changed, the name changes, and I'm held hostage.

Fair? I think not. Oh, as for the two years before I can contact my downline--my mom, my sister, my best friends, ... yeah, right.

jthompson said: August 23, 2007 10:17 AM | #

Here is the message you will receive if you post comments in the freetheibo forum that do not support the Message that TEAM Leaders are supporting.

I love this business and i love the support/team part of the business the most. I am against thought/mind control....

__________

You have been permanently banned from this board.

Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.

Reason given for ban: violated forum rules

A ban has been issued on your IP address.

Beryl Nichols said: August 23, 2007 11:05 AM | #

Tex,

I have read your complaints on most of the blogs. Your main concern is the high cost of tools and the profits made from tools, so far as I can tell.

Do you want someone in the corporation to make YOUR basic value judgement decisions for you?

If the corporation were to tell each organization how much they can charge for producing & selling their tools, wouldn't that be price fixing?

That would be akin to the government limiting what Willie could charge for a concert ticket or an album or a personal appearance.

God forbid someone telling Andy Andrews, "the Amway Comedian" what to charge for a CD. What is his fee? Is it too high. I liked his talk on the Six Principles for Success, I bought it. Did I pay too much? Isn't that for ME to decide?

As you will notice, the corporation will discontinue a product before they offer it for an unprofitable price.

They don't follow the addage of: Price it cheaper than you can manufacture it and "make it up on volume." That is a perfect formula for bankruptcy!

Will it make a difference in the price if you and I don't buy the tools anymore? I think not. Supply and demand rules to roost on pricing, in America.

Basically Tex, I feel you are asking someone else to decide what you should pay for tools. Is that fair in your mind?

Basically, I NEVER want the corporation or anyone else for that matter, making a decision for ME regarding the pricing of the tools. That is MY decision to make, buy or not to buy.

Keep the Faith

Beryl Nichols said: August 23, 2007 11:35 AM | #

Tex,

You are right my friend, we ALL have to deal with integrity issues. Fortunately, they are not personal issues, which makes them irrelevant but nevertheless difficult to deal with in the eyes of the uneducated.

Heck, everyone has always been skeptical about the business in one area or another, forever. Whether it be the Ph of the L.O.C. or flouride in the toothpaste or lack thereof.

Somebody is always going to be out there "looking for the hook." Looking for the bad in something basically good. THAT is what makes the "people business" difficult, at best. But that humbling experience is wonderful because it is different everyday, depending on who your talking to. No matter they be business minded people or employee minded people....they ALL use soap!!

Keep the Faith

Tex said: August 24, 2007 2:28 PM | #

Im.a.believer,

You sign up for the agreement every year you renew. The agreement itself says there may be changes, which you should read prior to renewing, even if you renew automatically. I understand they are doing away with auto-renewal, just to reinforce this issue. But that doesn't mean you are off the hook. If you think you should be given this flexibility, take Quixtar to arbitration and/or court. Good luck, you'll need a lot of luck.

Beryl,

I don't want Quixtar to decide the price of tools. That is apparently what IS happening in Russia, and perhaps India and the UK. Did you know that?

I prefer to know the profits being made via tools, and let the IBO's decide if they want to pay the going rate for them.

My current concern is apparently Quixtar told the upline not to disclose tool profits, according to 2 TEAM executives, Chuck Goetschel, a defendent in the TEAM IBO Board legal action, and Ron Simmons, the CEO of Legacy, which was absorbed into TEAM. This is disturbing to me, and I would like to know if this is true. If true, I would also like to know if Quixtar told them what to say instead. I would also still like to know how much they made on tools, as we have this information from other former high level IBO's.

KS in NC said: August 25, 2007 12:37 AM | #

I just bought some soap this week --Iam with team and I ove the sopa and the laundry detergent and the glister and I pay almost double for two of them-the SA-8 is still not too bad due to quality and concentration--the vitamins I buy but they are overpriced---I was an Amway Distributor and understand but the main demographic getting into the business are not me --middle aged and Tex and Beryl if you are indeed at least middle-aged. The young eat and drink energy drinks and adore the wellness industry and would like to compete with Walmart with basic commodities!!! Not a vision of Alticor--quixtar a nice bus model as well as Amway--but building depth is much better- I wish Bill Britt would have thought of it in the nineties. Huge picture in people's minds or their parents when they go to get advice-is that amway is not as desirable as in the seventies.

ken shinn said: August 25, 2007 12:48 AM | #

How can Quixtar win when the first 8 things you punch up on a search are mostly negative and I just lost a fifty year old couple, sharp as a tack who owned four fast food businesses (major franchises) but who got online and saw the negative a la Schwartz and Quix/AM trash-and the other untruths--about Quixtar and Amway! They were in but asked me to tear u the check--could not get over the hurdle of Amway!! These Neg bloggers are probably all over this website trying to draw up ire-for all I know you could be the author of one of them. It can't be positive for all of this to be in the press in so many states--as stated on the blog-Free The IBO and let true competition begin if we can find something to compete with you in--your business will get better---a monoply is why this has gotten out of hand with pricing and shutting down the IBOAI to a monthly basis! Bah Humbug!

YankeeIBO said: August 25, 2007 1:05 PM | #

Tex,

I believe you are caught in a kind of "Catch-22" in regards to tool profit disclosure.

At a recent convention, one of our Diamonds was on stage speaking about the various rewards this business offers. At one point, this Diamond began to allude to the rewards that also come from being part of the system, but stopped short of disclosure, saying the Quixtar doesn't want them to talk about that money. I believe this is really because they are only allowed to present the income that can be made from Quixtar, not from any other sources made possible by their Q* business.

This is where your Catch-22 comes in--you have been fighting to eliminate false representations of income as Q* income, when part of that income is derived from sources outside Q*. That is what is happening here--I believe there is something that applies to this situation in the Biz rules. Also, knowing what kind of income can be derived from BSM alone contributes to situations like we see in TEAM, where the main motivation is BSM money, and not Q* money. You have to get to Platinum to start making any real money, because the bulk of the paychecks comes from the BSM--the products are only a means to an end, and not the main focus.

Jeffrey said: August 25, 2007 2:02 PM | #

The people in my group that I have developed a personal relationship with have not flipped out and quit. It's the ones that come in and they are going to do it their way with their "don't tell me how to build it" attitude and don't want to communicate, let alone get to know their sponsor and upline. Right away, they start finding fault with the company and the products. If they would have been TRUELY pre-qualified with the right questions, they would have never gotten in the biz in the first place.

My wife knew personally the two head honcho guys that had the Wendy's franchises in Des Moines, and Wendy's was constantly telling them you have to do this, or you can't do that. Those people in the above post with the franchises were looking for an excuse to quit.

I just wish that I had not wasted nearly 20 years with my upline's deceptive "training" system. I have had to unlearn everything they taught me because it was about 99% wrong. I have a feeling that I'm going to be in this business a lot longer than my upline Diamond.

And if Wal-Mart is such a wonderful savior with their supposidly low prices for all of us "destitute" Americans, why do they have such a bad reputation and have had literally hundreds of lawsuits filed against them? Search the web for any major company and put the word "lawsuits" behind it and see what happens. No major company has ever achieved sainthood.

A note about Wal-Mart: some stores have posted that they do not allow people to come in and do price comparisons and if they do not leave when asked, the store manager will have them arrested for criminal tresspass. If they really have the lowest prices, what are they trying to hide?

I don't like the name Amway any better than anybody else, but the response I have had to Quixtar has been just as bad, if not worse. I say Quixtar and people look at me like they don't have any idea of what I'm talking about.

The reason that most people don't get it, is because most people don't get it. They are going absolutely nowhere at the speed of light.

Get a new dream and goal and find some new prospects. Hey, another idea: buy and USE some SA8, Pursue, Glister, Refreshing Body Wash, and Nutrilite Daily, then go out and sell it. I have sold all of the above at retail and continue to do so. They are competitive pricewise, and they beat the competition hands down.

Tex said: August 25, 2007 5:18 PM | #

YankeeIBO,

There is no "Catch-22" in the truth. Only when Ron Simmons posted a few days ago did I find out the corp is behind the non-disclosure of tool profit issue. I have spent plenty of time on the telephone with Quixtar for this topic to be covered, and plenty of noise on the blogs has occurred for several years regarding this issue.

As I have said before, in reference to not clamping down on the tool profit issue, Quixtar is not an innocent bystander. Now that they seem to be directly involved, it is even more troublesome.

Somebody with a backbone needs to step forward and set the record straight. This is not a 2 year activity, at most 2 days, I would prefer 2 hours or less.

Things will only get worse the longer the silence continues. Come clean NOW, and we will move forward from that point.

Beryl Nichols said: August 26, 2007 5:32 PM | #

Tex,

Because Ron Simmons posted a statement about non-disclosure of tool profit by the corporation, that makes it a fact? What makes Ron's word gospel on this issue? What would the price of the tools have to do with the information conveyed by the tool? I still stand on the fact, Tex, that it is not YOUR job to save ME money on tools. I make my own decisions on what I am willing to pay for tools, products, etc. If I pay too much for a product, shame on me. I guess that is what got all this "flea market" mindset going. Personally, I don't like fleas nor the atmosphere they hang in.

Beryl Nichols said: August 26, 2007 5:56 PM | #

Most people looking for an excuse NOT to do this business NEVER mention the supurb support, R&D on old and new products, excellent printed materials, ability to call and talk to a REAL person, bonus check deposited directly to a debit card, if you choose, lack of paperwork, legal department, tax department, excellent packaging of products. All this and more are included in the price you pay for the products you order. And we want to compete with WalMart!! SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!! People that shop at WalMart simply don't have a quality mindset. Don't waste your time trying to change them. They will not change and they are not a prospect for our business because they are looking for FREE & CHEEEEP! But please don't use them for YOUR excuse not to build this business.

Tex said: August 27, 2007 10:56 AM | #

Beryl,

It wasn't an isolated statement. Andy Andrews, former TIF Diamond, also said the corp directed them not to share tool profits several years ago, you can watch the video yourself on youtube. Chuck Goetschel recently said the same thing as well. I have asked the corp if this is true, and so far there has been dead silence.

The problem is most people getting into the business don't have much business savvy, and when they are told the xyz tool program is their shortcut to success and it is HEAVILY promoted as THE way to succeed, most of them believe it. They don't understand what is going on until thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars have been wasted and stuffed into the uplines' pockets.

When there is a built-in and apparently corporately approved lie, there is a HUGE problem.

Your points about the corp are true, but they are far overshadowed by the massive amounts of money being made via the tools. That's like saying, "see how strong my arms are?", and when it comes time to run the race, you find out your legs have been chopped off.

Beryl Nichols said: August 28, 2007 5:09 PM | #

Tex,

Point well taken on the tools, however, if the leadership of an organization is tracking ONLY tapes, books, meetings & seminars and all system tools and not tracking PRODUCT MOVEMENT along side, they are not business people, they are just theives taking advantage of people. You're right, they aren't business savvy, but that is the PRIMARY job the tools should address. Getting business savvy. It seems that most people on the TEAM concept are just excited about being excited.

You can build a line 20 deep and if the volume is zero, guess what? If you have ONE person in a line that doesn't know who his leader is and doesn't know that he joined Quixtar and he is in the direct selling business, he has been decieved.

If the leadership went to the bank with a pocket full of tool money and minimal product movement took place on the other side, they should be terminated immediately. Just my humble opinion. Amway used to track how the business was progressing by the movement of kits. What happened?

Tex said: August 29, 2007 11:37 AM | #

Beryl,

I just had an experience that you have pulled the ideas right out of my mind, kind of like a Star Trek episode with a Spok doing a "mind meld".

I have seen MUCH more focus on tool tracking than PV tracking. In fact, it is often said "build the tool numbers, and PV will follow". This is not isolated to TEAM, as I have been in another organization, and accumulated many tools from many lines of sponsorship that indicate the same thing is going on.

Of course, I don't have any tools from those groups that don't use the tools (duh), but I believe these groups are a distinct minority of the total IBO's.

And therein lies the problem. If Quixtar terminated all of the offenders, there wouldn't be much IBO leadership left. They are rightly concerned this would significantly reduce their volume.

We need to get together and have a beer (or some other beverage) sometime.

Beryl Nichols said: August 29, 2007 3:58 PM | #

Hey Tex,

Have you ever had a JagerBomb made with X/S? Kinda like a meeting after the meeting with a buzz saw. LOL

They say "build the tool business and PV will follow." I would want to see the PV of the new ones as proof, especially with the stacking techniques used by TEAM.

One technique some leaders use is, "keep them dumb and excited." That usually accounts for ONE good month. That will work as long as you have momentum large enough to make up for the ones that quit. That is no way to run a quality business, in my opinion.

Tex said: August 30, 2007 4:20 PM | #

Beryl,

No, but I googled that drink, and just realized I probably got over my head.

I concur with your other points, but the upline isn't concerned about PV, they are making too much from the tools, which goes along with "keep them dumb (about tool profits) and excited (about the "bling" we buy with the tool profits").

In fact, the high IBO turnover works in their favor, as the new IBO's are encouraged to get "tooled up", resulting in even more tool profit.

Beryl Nichols said: August 31, 2007 2:46 PM | #

Tex,

That is precisely why Orrin and Chris have to leave! The IBO's that were trained in their system are going to be another issue, which is why Quixtar wants a commitment from them. Very reasonable to me.

YagerBomb= Yagermeister (tastes like anti-freeze) + X/S Energy Drink (instead of Red Bull) = IBO friendly hangover.

Keep the Faith

The Big Apple said: September 2, 2007 1:28 PM | #

Beryl,

I think you just truly caught on to what’s been going on [your 8/28, 8/29 posts].

I am an Independent, but was part of one of the major systems for several years. I was really surprised when the very successful Emeralds we plugged into did a counseling session for my wife and me. Their criteria for judging success was not PV, but rather, who was showing the plan, who was attending Opens, and who was bringing people to meetings and major functions. They didn’t view those who were selling product as any factor in what they called success.

An IBO with a Quixtar pin on their lapel was someone they could count on to move BSMs through their organization; someone with credibility to do the “grassroots” work and get all the unpaid people at the bottom to buy tools, come to meetings and fill the seats.

Then I accidently saw their bonus statement. Here were very successful, hard working Emeralds just qualifying at 7500 group PV. Meanwhile, my retired sponsor was easily doing 10,000+PV per month with little effort.

I was very puzzled.

It wasn’t until a few years later, when I understood that most of the income for the Emeralds-and-above came from the BSMs, meetings, and speaking fees, that the light bulb began to go on. As I began accepting the truth, I found it more and more difficult to go to the meetings.

I began noticing that the tapes and meetings offered very little product and sales training. I began to notice how a good deal of every speech at major functions was devoted to promoting the next function, the next standing order tape, or leader edification (so you would believe in them more when they came on stage to speak). I realized that the “relationship” were there to keep people in the business when they weren’t making money.

Then I stepped back and looked at the whole picture. As long as they had a few key believers who reached 1000 PV, 2500 PV, 4000 PV, and Platinum, it didn’t matter how much turnover they had. Turnover resulted in increased use of tools and increased attendance at the Opens to replace the ones who left. Translation: more money in the leaders’ pockets regardless of the amount of product sold.

Want to know why the business has stagnated since 1982? Look at what business the big motivational organizations are truly in.

Beryl Nichols said: September 4, 2007 5:19 PM | #

Big Apple,

A lot of people are coming out from under the eather! Remember when the "new ones" would say "well, who sells the stuff"? We weren't taught to have the guts to look them in the eye and say YOU DO! YOU sell to yourself FIRST. Then YOU sell to some customers (your Mother, Dad, Sister, neighbors, etc.) then you sponsor some folks and YOU sell to them, to do exactly what you are doing.

But, along came the BSM's and everybody was promoting tapes, books, meetings, seminars and NOT selling the products, but simply buying them ourself.

That's when we became COWARDS and the product business started declining and it had NOTHING to do with the price!! The profits were just far better on the BSM's and the organizations didn't have to buy them from Amway. Talk about "biting the hand that feeds you"!!!

At least today, Quixtar has the credibility to enforse the rules and get rid of the offenders. If they terminate 15 more before it is done, so be it. If we are to have a business to operate we need to clean it up!

Rich thought we had the guts to be IBO's back in '83, but he was mistaken. Some people thumbed their nose at him. Today, they will spend millions of their ill-gotten gains protecting their miserable selves and begging the Corporation to forgive their transgressions and for Rich to come change their diapers, for they have quite a mess to contend with.

In the future, we can look at all this and tell people, who may be looking at this business for their future, and show them what happens to people that lie, cheat, and steal from people. They don't belong here and they are not here, but the business is GREAT!!

ken shinn said: September 9, 2007 11:30 PM | #

Sorry Beryl Stop spinning! Alas, I was in thru a non-diamond leg of Britt from 86 thru 2006 and I finally got out --to get back in under Britt in a new diamond or somewhere after going 4000 in the 90's with 8 legs at a function 6 hours away and seeing lack of enough depth and (sin) taking away our directship and going 1500 with three different cold-contact groups afterwards. I personaly sponsored over twenty five people and we sold everything from water treatment systems to APSA-80. You are right in that we (distributors)quit retailing and it became a dirty word--Beryl, one question, "What gated community country club do you live in?.. the same one that the Devos and Van Andels live in apparently. The prices have been too high since the nineties to look somebody in the face and retail basic commodities to them that they can buy from the grocery stores where they get milk from now.

The Team leadership is more solid than Britt -Renfro -Miller and company used to be (before P Miller committed Adultery) and many fell off the watermelon cart in his group. Do not slam Woodward/Brady leadership because of standing up for the new and dreaming IBO. These folks were not just chosen randomly to be on the IBOAI board...you know that Beryl. Are you hoping like in corporate America that they will praise you for standing up for them even if you know they are wrong with product pricing, changing Quixtar's name to Amway and giving reduced status to the iboai board?(they got little accomplished anyway)Beryl haw many have you personally sponsored since Quixtar of 9/1/99? That will prove your committment or lack thereof! I absorbed tapes and books and I grew enormously and all the profit for emeralds and above in Britt's group did not bother me at all..but to be stupid and broke with no wisdom after years of college where I spent mega bucks on education, that has bothered me since 1986. Can somebody compete with Quixtar? I hope so... since Q will not bend with the times and create what should have been The opportunity with people calling you Beryl to get into your business----- this should have been that good with the dawn of the internet and wellness! Q has blown it in my opinion!

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