Amway Global Ada-tudes: A View from the Top : Team Action

Team Action

Friday, August 10, 2007 by Jim Payne
Category: Announcements, Business Support Materials, Rules, Quixtar Philosophy

Many of you have heard by now that Quixtar has taken some serious actions on some IBO businesses during the past day or so. Check out the following statement for more details about that and then visit the Alticor Media Blog for any additional information as it becomes available.

Quixtar Statement on Team

After working with Team training organization founders, Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, on issues related to teaching by the organization on positioning of the business, the practice of “stacking,” or inappropriate depth-building, the use of unauthorized business support materials, and because they told company executives that they intend to start soliciting IBOs to join their new competing MLM business, the company has terminated Woodward and Brady’s Quixtar businesses. Moreover, they, together with other Team, Legacy and Team 5K IBOs, plan to file a class action lawsuit in Federal Court against Quixtar.

Woodward and Brady have taught business practices about positioning of the business and “stacking” or inappropriate depth-building that put affiliated IBOs and Quixtar at serious and immediate risk for legal and regulatory action and had to be stopped. They also had issues with use of unauthorized business support materials and solicited others to become part of their training organization despite warnings to discontinue such practices.

Quixtar proposed solutions and options to address these issues that would bring Team-affiliated IBOs into compliance with Quixtar’s Rules of Conduct during a meeting August 9. Team’s founders refused to even review the plan and consider changing their practices. Team’s founders stated that they intended to start a competing MLM. In fact, they suggested we waive the non-compete clause that protects all IBOs to allow their new company or any other opportunity to prospect existing IBOs for competing opportunities.

Quixtar is unwilling to put its business and the businesses of hundreds of thousands of IBO businesses at risk of legal and regulatory action caused by Woodward and Brady’s practices. Ultimately, their unwillingness to address these issues and their stated plans to form a competing business resulted in the termination of their IBO businesses.

We are working with Team-affiliated IBOs to support them through the transition of leadership in their organization.

Comments

Kim said: August 10, 2007 5:49 PM | #

Thank You Jim, for taking this action to protect my business and the integrity of the “system” that I’m following. I know that there has been a lot of talk about systems that are out there that aren't ethical and feel that this is a step in the right direction to protect the ones that are. I know that this is a drastic measure to take and hope that the IBO’s that have found themselves in these systems (Team, Legacy and Team 5K) can see the integrity of Quixtar and has stepped to the plate to help them build a business with honesty and integrity.

Chillin77 said: August 10, 2007 7:05 PM | #

Thank you for standing by the business owners who seek to do it right, seek to preserve and seek to grow our businesses.

Joe said: August 10, 2007 7:25 PM | #

I can't tell you how many times people would say they are on the TEAM and I would ask them how do you like the vitamins and they would look at me puzzled. The only thing they seemed to know about was the XS. Talk about a team with an ability to lead. The problem was they mis-led the whole TEAM. I applaud the corporation for standing these guys down. I just want to run an honest business. We don't need them misleading the public giving us a bad name. Believe me they give our business a BAD name. Lets go IBOs! Lets show em we can do it the right way with honesty and integrity. They say we can't sell the product. Bet me! The problem is you gotta use the product first. You can't sell what you don't use. Very fundamental to an honest organization. My upline taught me that the day I got in. I have ALWAYS sold product.

Daniel J. Richards said: August 10, 2007 7:55 PM | #

hey...I made a decision, that on June 25th 2007, I was going to contact quixtar and become an Ibo. why?, because 5 years earlier I was introduced to the business plan, and for very personal reasons I put it on hold...less than a week later, I was contacted by an Ibo who was using the Team approach..and by all accounts, this was an accepted business model approved by Quixtar, and I have the paperwork to prove it...so how about some real disclosure form Q!

A J said: August 10, 2007 9:50 PM | #

Being an IBO of an organizations that recently aligned itself with TEAM, I was concerned with their business building practices. So much so I was not partaking in the "System" as much as I used to. I am glad the corporation is doing something about it. I don't know all the facts yet but my gut was telling me some time ago something wasn't right.

I am thankful to hear my direct upline Diamond is still in place and I hope they are able move back to the way things used to be done in their organization prior to TEAM.

My wife and I still believe 100% in the Quixtar Business model and we love the exclusive products.

Personally, and this is just off the top of my head, I think the only approved "training" materials should be those available through Qiuxtar, which should be made available at cost to any and all IBOs.

Daniel...if the paperwork you have is from Quixtar, then yes, that presents the proper business plan. Do not confuse the TEAM approach and materials with the Quixtar business or compensation plan.

I look forward to to seeing the changes in my upline organization with the removal of TEAM.

Daniel Gigante said: August 10, 2007 10:42 PM | #

I am a member of the I-team. We just merged with Team. I am confused about stacking and traditional business models. I was very excited to learn at the Platinum level my income could potentially double with the Profit sharing of the system tools. Now Q has pulled the plug.The team was very open about the tool money and their was no deception in the plan.The deception is with Quixtar who turned a blind eye for years about tools money. If the training system works and the money is shared everybody wins. I have been on system for 5 months and it has changed my life for the better I will never be the same. What is Dexter going to do with his tool business? what about all of the team members who have quit their jobs to build a big team?

Josh said: August 11, 2007 12:08 AM | #

Daniel,

I wouldn't be surprised if Tex doesn't give you flogging on that post.

Really, in my opinion, the only way your income would double at the Platinum level is if you are moving minimum volume through Quixtar. It shouldn't be the case. Making money, yes, doubling your income, no. Again, unless your volume is minimum. Which is what happens, apparently, with this stacking method.

Steve said: August 11, 2007 12:54 AM | #

Josh,

Is your upline associated with Team? If not how do you know what the profit sharing of the system tools consists of?

We all know (lot of complaints on this site) that cds cost very little to make and are sold for $6-$7 each so there is probably a lot of profit in there. With thousands of cds a week being sold its quite possible that tens of thousands a week could be shared by Platinums and above. If that is the case then a Platinums income could possibly double because of the tool money being shared instead of being held by the main producer of the tool system.

You mentioned Tex, is he part of Team or have the specifics of Team's tool system profit sharing plan? Just wondering...

Concerned IBO said: August 11, 2007 1:23 AM | #

Good riddance of the cheaters!!!!

Chaplain Charlie W. Meads said: August 11, 2007 1:46 AM | #

HI Group, I am looking to get back into this business I was at the direct level back in the early 90's ...so tell me what new and great about amway these days ? who could tell me more about this Quixtar?

Thanks

Chaplain Charlie

A J said: August 11, 2007 1:50 AM | #

Daniel G;

Did you sign up in Quixtar to sell products and sponsor others to do the same, or did you sign up to make money in a motivational "system"?

I don't care that TEAM was sharing the profits. That money represents 100s of thousands if not millions of dollars out the pockets of people below Platinum.

Quixtar is a legal direct Selling business, not a motivational tools business, get that straight and you can double your income. Making money on motivational tools that are not sold to customers at retail is an illegal pyramid business.

P.S. There is no I in team. Also,you are not a member of TEAM, you are an IBO with Quixtar.

shane said: August 11, 2007 8:35 AM | #

lets see.... how many new diamonds did Quixtar break since 9.1.99 that was from North america? and how many of them are not from team? not many. good move guys and they have a big presence in michigan...im sure that will help the election of devos in a couple years. not to mention the layoffs you are going to have to do....well i guess you got ur brand recognition now.

there was only two achievers trips from quixtar this year one for Team and one for everyone else...and obviously by the size alone they will take my guess about 450 to half a billion from quixtar by their termination...what hypocrites you guys are..they do meetings in grand rapids! you didnt have an issue with them before...from platinum to iboai board member in what 8 years? how long has don wilson and bily florence been in the business? they have been on the LEGAL AND ETHICS BOARD and have been chairmen as well. no issues befoe...great propaganda but your still going to lose your job.

Chuck said: August 11, 2007 12:04 PM | #

Shane,

There have been many a politician on ethics committees in Congress and state legislatures who have ended up serving prison terms for ethics violations. Many, if not most of us, see your leaders as foxes in the hen house, devouring everything near them. Just because they ran big numbers doesn't mean they were operating with integrity or respect for the total IBO community. Heard of Enron?

Oh, and don't worry. Those of us left will do just fine building the business to levels far beyond where the Quixtar business is today now that we don't have to defend your LOA's nonsense in the marketplace every day. I am so thrilled to see you guys gone that I will personally work harder than ever to make sure no one loses their job because of you folks. Trust me, we are not saddened to see your leaders have to take their pathetic act elsewhere.

Ram said: August 11, 2007 2:06 PM | #

Jim,

How did Quixtar approve stacking in the first place with the modified SA4400 ? http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/dci/dci_custom_sa4400_1.pdf http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/dci/dci_custom_sa4400.pdf

If it was illegal, its quixtar's fault to have approved a modified SA4400 in the first place.

If indeed it was legal, it makes no sense to change what they were already doing.

Talk about tools money, every organization makes money off of tools (including BWW/ World Wide/ Dexter's group) Why not come on all the organizations about it, at least it will help the IBOs as a whole. By the by, is there a "legal limit" on the amount of money which can be made with tools ? Its free enterprise and they do have the right to set their own price, just as Quixtar has the right to set the price for its products. They don't complain about Quixtar making so much money from products, do they ?

Not being transparent about the business only justifies the critic's claims about Quixtar/ tools system

Bridgett said: August 11, 2007 7:31 PM | #

Ram referred to an SA4400 on Aug 11th at 2:06 pm. He provided links to this "modified" SA4400 from a viciously critical website of Quxitar/Amway, replete with misinformation, half-truths, and fantasies regarding the Quixtar/Amway business opportunity.

Response: What the heck are these PDFs?

Below is a link tp the official Quixtar IBO Compensation Plan (SA4400) directly from the Corporation's website. http://www.quixtar.com/documents/iwov/vis/010-en/pdf/IBO%20Support/BusForms/SA4400.pdf

Editors of this blog, will you please respond? Is there a "modified" SA4400 that Quixtar sanctions?

Mark said: August 11, 2007 10:18 PM | #

I can understand everyones passion for this topic. However, facts are facts. The FTC has no problem with stacking, Quixtar has its own rules that never made it illegal but recommended it not be done. I just reviewed the actual lawsuit and if the Team has the documentation to prove their allegations then Quixtar could be in trouble. The Team claims to have documentation that the leadership of Quixtar has stated that they are a "internal consumption company, not a retail company." That statement alone makes Quixtar illegal....It's beginning to look like Quixtar is trying yell loud enough that nobody checks their facts.

ibofightback said: August 12, 2007 12:05 AM | #

Mark,

The FTC has clearly stated they don't consider "internal consumption" a problem. It's a myth put out by the anti-mlm corwd.

Where it's a problem is if folk are not buying product as legitimate consumers but in order to get bonuses - and it appears TEAM may have been encouraging that.

Bridgett - I believe (but may be wrong) the other SA4400 is a modifed version used by the DCI group and yes, approved by Quixtar

Jeff Daniels said: August 12, 2007 12:39 AM | #

Bridgett

the SA4400s Ram referred to on the critical website look like fakes to me. 2 examples, the performance bonus schedule looks very faint. this could be the color didn't scan well. One piece of data also is incorrect. Look closely at the PV/BV ratio. I have an old Quixtar supplied SA4400 from 2005 that has a lower ratio than the 2004 version from RAM. Did prices go down. I doubt it. If Team used them, then I doubt if Quixtar approved their use. I have always been taught, if I talk about money, I must show the Quixtar supplied SA4400.

Donovan said: August 12, 2007 1:32 AM | #

I am a TEAM IBO.

Q/Alticore/Amway (whatever) is shooting themselves in the foot here. They will only do more damage by resurrecting the Amway name in N America.

Here is an excerpt from the-team.biz website:

A meeting with Quixtar had been scheduled for August 9th to discuss open issues with the Team. Before the meeting occurred, there was an emergency IBOAI meeting called to address IBO concerns about the condition of the business and the business transformation. After the IBOAI meeting, roughly a third of the board members felt so strongly about what had been learned that we couldn't go forward and continue, in good faith, to represent the business. We had been assured numerous times that if we had a problem going forward, we should approach Quixtar/Alticor's lead counsel to discuss terms of departure.

Now I don't know about anybody else, but if I'm a diamond making boo-coos of money and I'm a bad, unethical guy . . . why would I stir things up to forfeit that? I wouldn't . . . if I were unethical. It appears that Woodward and Brady were baited into it by following Q's instructions for amicable separation that was given to the IBOAI members.

T K said: August 12, 2007 1:41 AM | #

Isn't it convenient that anytime an IBO files a potentially legitimate lawsuit, Quixtar/Amway/Alticor's knee-jerk reaction is to terminate their business? Especially after the "DREAM" of "residual" income is discussed, even on the corporate websites...

If Quixtar/Amway/Alticor is so serious about arbitration, why don't they attempt to arbitrate rather than cutting off people's businesses?

Also, it is very interesting that the parties of this lawsuit are not seeking money, and comprise most of the IBOAI board... which was elected by IBOs to protect them from Corporate mistakes.

This activity doesn't follow the spirit of the opportunity created by Rich and Jay so many years ago. Sure, they had some troubles, but they always treated the ADA as more than just nagging salesmen. Perhaps the problem is that this generation of ownership didn't build the business themselves.

Everyone that has purchased an "Access Business Group" made product lately knows that they are way over-priced and that the "AMWAY" name in America was so tarnished by scandals that it would not be marketable like it was in the 70's.

Perhaps the 2nd generation owners should have gone out and built their own network marketing business so they would understand the IBOs better.

I was first involved in the AMWAY business in the 70's and earned a reasonable "commission" by retailing the LOC and SA8; that is no longer possible, nor is it possible to be honest and have any customers of the "core" products.

TEAM was on the right track with the stacking as it creates more long-term stability and loyalty, unless the corporation steals more bonuses from the people that did all the work.

ken shinn said: August 12, 2007 2:51 AM | #

You would not post me earlier --you are afraid of the truth--I was 4000 once in Britt in 20 years-1500 three times. Can you honestly say you can compete with most of the "exclusive products in 2007? the depth building by not competing for people that both I and my downline know and building a taproot is what I di not achieve before and all of the great diamonds in BWW and worldwide dreambuilders taught me to build depth! Quixtar has the Money to bring down costs and to give some more incentive to Non-platinum IBOs besides as recently posted on the website --a crumb of 50$ bonus three times in fiscal 07/08 if I sell 75 dollars in one month--I am sure all my friends will sign up as ibo's now. What about bringing back the Name so we can hear"Is it Amway" --come on why did you get away from the "name" on everything???You should turn the running of Quixtar over to Woodward and Brady and the Team! These men have integrity and are visionaries for Quixtar! Their leaders have good morals and are geniuses about this business. For the same reason why you give everyone tax cuts in America this group will take you to 5 billion in the US alone in two years--Follow their lead---- not the Lawyers....I have been in a month with them and I have heard nothing but praise from them on very recent CD's cocerning Quixtar and our affiliation.

Ram said: August 12, 2007 9:51 AM | #

Editor of this blog:

Please clarify that the SA4400 - modified version is the one approved by Quixtar for TEAM use. I also see a post from Daniel J. Richards (August 10, 2007 7:55 PM ) that he saw the TEAM approach for the Quixtar plan. May be he can clarify if he saw the same/similar one, or a different one.

Brigett:

I agree that amquix is a critical website about Quixtar. But just because he is a critic, does not mean that the document hosted by the website is forged/wrong.(No, I am not supporting him and not endorsing what he is doing, I am merely referencing to a document which Scott Larsen says that Quixtar had approved it for TEAM's use. If I am wrong, please feel free to moderate / remove my posts)

Gary Ingram said: August 12, 2007 12:50 PM | #

Our organization recently began the process to affiliate with TEAM. We consulted with Quixtar mgmt and sales advisors for a lenghty period of time - and all reports coming from Ada were that all was fine with them. The "team-depth" business model was approved by the Corporation and they developed a modifed SA4400 for TEAM. The Content Review # is CR17851. Also, no one says when you can or can not start your second team. The other thing is that when sponsoring - the sponsor is to be introduced to the new IBO by phone, email or in person at an open meeting. How is this really different that when you go out and make a cold contact? You didn't know that person before you met them either. So now the changes effective Sept 2007 are you have to prospect by saying " "I would like to tell you about the Amway business opportunity." That is what the IBOAI board met about - and the fact that the mgmt never discussed the name change back to Amway with the board, or field leadership.

Sounds more like to me that Quixtar is not listening to the IBOAI and the Board is a paper shell. Folks - the old ADA Board, now IBOAI, was put in place to protect IBOs from the company changing the deal. It is one of the components of the business that separated us from the others in the MLM world. GUESS WHAT - they are changing the deal! And not for the better! It is going to make it harder for the new person to build the business. All the new money in the '08 QBI? They have not announced that to get the $$ you have to have a certain amount of retail in your organization and be so wide - guess what - they want to change the program to build a sales force and give you a JOB of selling day-to-day and not developing long term security.

There are Diamonds and above that have had 6-12 good sales people - all selling 7500PV every month. They are Sales Managers - with a job of managing their salespeople. Is that security? Nope - but that seems to be where the "new transformation" is heading! So guess what? If we stay with Quixtar - we are all going to have to become sales managers, and their actions in the transformation process borderline on treating the IBO as an employee vs and independent contractor. Stay tuned as I predict more defections as we near the kick off of the 2007-08 FY and probably more suits.

Bridgett said: August 13, 2007 2:49 AM | #

Hello Quixtar...echo...echo...echo

The question has been asked multiple times: Is this modified SA4400--showing two legs (a binary structure aka stacking)--a reviewed and approved document by the Corporation?

Either the one with a time-frame of 24 months from the bogus site (which I'd be surprised they'd approve from my personal experience with our LOA and desires to get things approved. Quixtar has rejected anything with a success time-frame on it),

or the one Gary refers to: CR17851, which I'm assuming is similar to the other one (CR18961).

Does anyone have a link to the CR17851 one?

BTW, I don't know what "DCI" stands for.

Quixtar, back to my question: Did you approve a binary plan?

I'm Just plain tired said: August 13, 2007 8:27 AM | #

Has anyone considerd that perhaps the more success that Team has in helping people achieve levels of success the more money gets paid out from Quixtar and the more profit they lose? The art of building width the old way is dead. People drop out so fast because all their alleged friends and family say no. In the meantime profit is generated on short term basis for quixtar, The IBO gets squat. The plan needs to be changed so new people have an incentive to stay in long enough to get belief and education from the training that TEAM supplies. Their chances for success goes way up. To long the bucks have gone all to the top and not to the honest hard prople who are trying their best to make it work. I have been in 10 years and work harder at this then I did my jobs. Both sides have very valid points. As a member of Team I believe in out leadership. I also believe in the quality of Quixtars products. However you cannot rule a modern company with archiac ideas from the 50's. It is time for a quixtar overhaul and less control. Quixtar wants us to be in sales yet we cannot sell anything at a exposition or trade fair. We cannot market XS to stores or venders. A little hippocritic I believe. Why should Quixtar have control If we are alleged independent business owners?? I can understand guidelines but an personally tired of all the outdated stupid rules. Attention TEAM and QUIXTAR. It is time to ask the little people what they want? You both feel you know best. Is this about power or actually helping the new IBO?? Think about it? IBO'S (unless Emeralds never have a voice even though you say they do!

Piet Strydom said: August 13, 2007 11:33 AM | #

I'm Just plain tired said: Has anyone considerd that perhaps the more success that Team has in helping people achieve levels of success the more money gets paid out from Quixtar and the more profit they lose?

Piet says: You have not understood the compensation plan properly - The percentage paid out on each product is fixed, and the structure of the leg determines who gets what. But the amount out of Amway's pocket is always the same.

I'm Just plain tired said: Quixtar wants us to be in sales yet we cannot sell anything at a exposition or trade fair.

Piet says: If you want to sell at trade fairs, join a trade fair company. You are in a MLM, which protects the small members from the big members opening huge trade fair stands, spending huge amounts advertising, etc, etc. I for one is very happy about that.

boogybren said: August 13, 2007 11:51 AM | #

I really don't see long term value in "stacking". If you stack one leg all the way to 7500 pv, you loose that volume because you yourself are 7500 pv but that new platinum gets all of the volume, that is of course until his downline does 7500 pv and on and on it goes. Building your organization wide builds stability, depth gives profitability. That sounds to me like a better combination.

paco y geovana bazan said: August 13, 2007 3:56 PM | #

los DIAMANTES de HABLA hISPANA estamos con quixtaramway .desararollando nuestro negocio con fe en el futuro. hemos recibido muchos beneficios DE LIBERTAD y VIAJES por mucho tiempo y en estos

ASI COMO CIENTOS DE NUESTROS DOWNLINES en estos momentos estamos mas unidos que nunca.

adelante hasta Embajador Corona Fundador.!!

y 1000 diamantes.!!!!!

SUS AMIGOS.

Francisco y Geovana bazan

Translation:

The Spanish speaking Diamonds are with quixtaramway. Developing our business with faith in the future. We've received many benefits of freedom and trips for a long time and now. Just like hundreds of our downlines and at this time we are more united than ever. We will continue ahead to Crown Ambassador Founder and 1000 diamonds. Your friends.

Francisco y Geovana bazan

Dream Chaser said: August 13, 2007 4:29 PM | #

The modified SA 4400's as previously used DCI (Dream Chasers International) were approved by Quixtar. DCI is/was Billy Florence's team.....now part of TEAM.

TEAM also uses a modified SA 4400, different than that of DCI.

Quixtar was willing to work w/ different teams, approved of the “depth approach”, etc because they know it works. When Q realized Team was leaving, the smearing started. As long as Team was doing volume they were willing to accomidate. Team wanted better prices to grow faster and bigger – it wasn’t happening. Team didn’t want to be in Amway……pretty easy to understand folks.

You can not refute what Team has stated. No, the corporation never made IBO’s buy anything BUT, retailing the Amway line is extremely difficult. Team is tired of making excuses for over-priced products. Let's go faster, let's win. I don't care about ressurecting the Amway name or righteously fighting the good fight…I became a business owner to build a strong business for my family. Most would agree that having Quixtar (instead of the Amway name) since 1999 has been beneficial……check your history books and thank Mr Florence for that one.

Imagine a business w/ awesome products at awesome prices….easy to retail and consume. You won’t have that with Quixtar. We haven’t had it for eight years….time to move on folks.

vicky & adam gomez said: August 13, 2007 4:38 PM | #

hemos sido IBOs por algunos anos en quixtar. Como esmeraldas fundadores estamos contentos con nuestro negocio. a nuestros ibos downlines les encantan los productos y los vendemos siempre de los cuales ganamos dinero. nos encanta saber que mas que nunca estamos con nuestros uplines diamantes hispanos. asique con la misma vision de seguir unidos seguiremos adelante con quixtar, sin importar lo que digan los demas.

Adam & Vicky Gomez

Translation:

We've been IBOs for some years at Quixtar. As Founder Emeralds we are happy with our business. Our downlines love the products and we sell them at a profit. We are happy to know that more than ever we are with our Hispanic Diamond uplines. So, with the same vision of being united we will continue to forge ahead with Quixtar regardless of what others say.

Opinionated Platinum said: August 14, 2007 4:49 AM | #

First of all folks, this comment is coming from a qualified (until the end of August) Platinum.

I have not been actively building the business for almost a year now, but prior to that point, had built my platinum business in basically a period of 18 months.

We (not just myself, but also a sister team, which took my upline to Sapphire that year and then Emerald the next year) built the team thanks to the teachings of Orrin and Chris, which were ultimately endorsed by none other than Jody Victor, Mr. IBOAI himself.

So -- to clarify a few things -- not only is the "modified" SA-4400 that was addressed in this blog approved for "the TEAM," it was approved for DCI (Billy Florence's LOS) and my LOS (which shall remain unnamed) along with many other sister organizations of which I'm aware.

So the basic issue of integrity is at stake BIG time, because Quixtar DID indeed endorse depth-building, "stacking," team sponsoring, or whatever you want to call it. We were always told that we needed to make sure each of those people in the line knew each other, but many times they didn't. We were scared of threats that the corporation would call our downline and sask them if they knew their sponsor, but it's funny that it never actually seemed to happen to our group -- our group that helped my upline qualify Emerald, the first Emerald to break in our LOS for a long time.

When I asked my upline (the current qualified Emerald -- by the way, only until August, because I know for a fact that one of her legs will no longer be qualified then) about the Orrin/Chris issue, she waved it off like it was no big deal. Just like we always used to wave off everything -- the member/client rule, the cost of tools, the fact that we were really "stacking," etc. etc. etc. I can't tell you how many times the six-month inactivity rule has been violated -- people want to change lines of sponsorship, and rather than going to their upline (because sometimes there are dozens of people in a vertical line), they just go inactive. But they're not supposed to participate in ANY IBO-sponsored activity. Like that rule is ever followed.

I think this is huge. This is not just one diamond, it's not just Bo Short going to make a celebrity appearance on Dateline. This is not lone ranger Scott Larsen or Eric Scheibler who are now all old news and no one but critics pay attention to. Orrin and Chris have been heralded in the last few years as the huge accelerators of the whole company! Not to mention that the others in the suit include Chuck Goetschel, Don Wilson, and Billy Florence! These guys have been around in Amway forever! So it can't just be a little issue relating to one jealous IBO. There HAS to be more to the story.

Quixtar ousts them because of stacking, yet they endorsed it just within the last three years. Jody Victor (on the IBOAI board, and practically one of the founders of Quixtar) had Orrin and Chris at his functions regularly. And Billy Florence was also on the IBOAI board and had a huge involvement with the launch of Quixtar. What kind of ethical concerns does that raise about who is being hypocritical?

From Orrin and Chris's side, they say they were fighting high prices. I doubt that one. Anyone who has been an IBO in ANY LOS other than I-Team, endorsed by a Diamond named Brad Doyle, has been taught to be their "own best consumer" and that "retail sales" comes later as a by-product of those who don't "see the vision" of the plan. So I don't know how much that really holds water for them. And why would they sue Quixtar for being an illegal pyramid when they were breaking the very "rules" that Quixtar is supposedly enforcing?

This one is going to be a big deal. I can certainly see both sides of the story. But it's those people who were either already skeptical to begin with, or those who are following Orrin and Chris, that I think hold the balance of the outcome.

Ram said: August 14, 2007 5:47 AM | #

Bridgett:

Here you go http://www.iboai.com/images/LNBHPS212009.pdf

The document was indeed approved by quixtar.

Piet Strydom said: August 14, 2007 11:58 AM | #

In some of Quixtar's early comments it sounded as if stacking was a major problem. I think if you combine a overemphasis on depth, with an overemphasis on tools, you are moving onto dangerous ground. And by all accounts of what I have been seeing on the internet, TEAM caused a LOT of unhappiness with just that.

In the later, more announcements from Quixtar, it becomes clear that TEAM wanted to start their own MLM. This is in clear violation of their Amway agreement, and they also wanted the non-compete provisions in their contract waived, so that their downlines could move with them, and not have to wait out the 6-month period.

They were naive to think that they would get away with that. Their "lawsuit", which was prepared before they went into the meeting!, is a clear attempt to get the non-compete sections in the IBO contract waived.

I would not let a business associate walk away with an asset that we built together, I don't believe that it reasonable of anyone to expect it of Quixtar.

A J said: August 14, 2007 2:20 PM | #

Opinionated Platinum;

Nice post, one thing, after reading the statement of claim by TEAM (42 pages of drivel which they have made sure has gotten out to everyone and their dog), and Quixtar's actions, I did not get the sense the plaintiffs had their contracts terminated due to stacking.

On a side note, TEAM had the gall to send out an email saying that while the suit was in process I shouldn't bad mouth Quixtar\Alticor etc, yet they nade sure I also got that statement of claim. I think they've done enough damage already, they may also be subject to a libel suit.

Anyway, I think it all has more to do with TEAM being determined to start their own MLM and wanting to break a foundation of the IBO contract with Quixtar and that is the raiding their organizations by attempting to take all their IBOs to the new MLM.

Regardless of the outcome of the suit, it will (has) hurt both Quixtar and TEAM.

I personally have no intention of Following Orrin Woodward anywhere. After hearing him speak on several occasions I do not trust the man.

The proponents of TEAM will say they tried to work things out with Quixtar, yet when they attend a meeting to discuss issues, they leave and drop a 42 page statement of claim...Hmmm doesn't sound like they were prepared to talk that day.

One last point, and this is to the moderator, until this fiasco with TEAM I had heard nothing of a name change back to AMWAY, is this in the works as part of Quixtar's "New" look? I hope not.

Alice S said: August 14, 2007 6:26 PM | #

to Chaplain Charlie

I would be glad to explain to you how the Q biz works now - if you really want to get back in

we love the Biz

V said: August 15, 2007 12:57 AM | #

You know, any business that would fired you from your OWN business. Just means they have shoved a lot of BS over the years down your throats.

Honestly XS is overpriced

Cds are overpriced

Seems like you "followers" are fattening just another CEO except in this case its an upline.

Business is business ...don't let anyone fool you.

I am in quixtar and I am freelance and I make much more in freelance for just 4 hours a week.

Good luck, this is my last year in Amway , opps sorry Quixtar

C K said: August 15, 2007 1:59 AM | #

The inferior compensation package, along with the behind-the-scenes strife, caused me to decide to leave Quixtar after nearly 6 years in business. Quixtar endorsed everything that THE TEAM did and now they want to blame them for THEIR problems. On top of that, the Amway name is coming back. What next? Elimination of the internet and going back to personal distribution? I firmly believe that this business is imploding. I expect Alticor to focus its entire attention to overseas business and that Quixtar/Amway in North America will die off because of poor leadership at corporate, greedy book and CD peddling Diamonds and a compensation plan that pays in points and percentages rather than dollar bills.

MATTHEW PAYNE said: August 15, 2007 3:37 AM | #

YOU ARE MAKING A BIG MISTAKE!!!!!

THE WEIRD THING IS YOU KNOW IT.

emeraldeagle said: August 15, 2007 11:49 AM | #

Some basic points here.

1. stacking is a trumped up charge here, that makes no sense. First of All, Fact, it was approved by Quixtar. Q's critics of team make it sound like all Team did was build depth. That is absolutely false and misleading. Team teaches people to build width as well. but only after they learn the how. Their system is totally logical. and legal I might add.

2. A name change back to Amway will be the end of a legitimate business model for Alticor in North America.

this is just another example of a company that wants to hold on to past successes without adapting to the new trends that are changing faster than ever before.

One last point here, Quixtar, does a terrific job of customer service, developing product, and distribution.

But, you can't capture the market without offering some competitive pricing. The average American today is more concerned with price first. The company that offers quality at an affordable price today will win. period!

Josh said: August 15, 2007 1:37 PM | #

A couple things.

To those claiming to be Platinum in TEAM. What sort of cash flow are you receiving from Quixtar? What cash flow do you receive from BSMs in your group?

My guess, if this stacking approach is true, is that you make far more money from BSMs than from Quixtar.

Thus, confirming Tex's comments and sentiments throughout these blogs, as far as TEAM is concerned.

A J said: August 15, 2007 2:32 PM | #

Hey V...

They were not FIRED, they still own their own business(es) they just can't deal with Quixtar anymore due to breach of contract.

And you are right...business is business. Work a Quixtar business like any other and it will pay you according to the work you put in.

BTW, if you think the XS is overpriced, don't buy it, CD's too much? don't buy them. Contrary to what TEAM will have you think, Quixtar has many items that are competitively priced...I know, my wife wouldn't buy them otherwise.

We buy the products that we like that are at prices we feel are fair, and we promote the same to others, that's it....and that's the business we are in. Not some motivational leadership building scam.

From the diatribe TEAM put into that 42 page statement of claim it looks like they've been looking for a way to go on their own for a while.

They think if they make a big enough noise about pricing that will make Quixtar an illegal pyramid scheme??? What a pile of crap.

And now they want the court to dissolve terms of the same contract we all signed, which have been honoured for almost 50 years, and have protected us all.

They think they have a better way, great let them go and try, this is a Free Enterprise Society, but they are playing with the business lives of thousands and all of our business contracts with Quixtar. Our contracts state we cannot solicit any of our downline to join another competing MLM, period.

The damage is done, those who want to join them will, those who bought into Quixtar and not the TEAM leadership building scam will not.

I certainly wouldn't follow a team that has proven they don't believe in contracts (I never did trust Orrin Woodward). Once they start up their owm MLM, who's to say they won't change the rules on their organization if they don't like how things are going.

Mr. Gustufson said: August 15, 2007 9:11 PM | #

Jim,

Thanks for lying to my team's leadership only a month ago, an giving us a stamp of approval on Team. My how things have changed, a least your integrity has. You once had some, but appears to have been lost in such a short time. You've totally disrupted our business and caused us much grief as we now must find a new home. Any suggestions...oh, nevermind. Can't believe anything you say.

emeraldeagle said: August 16, 2007 12:18 AM | #

You guys with the stacking claim, that's junk. Team builds two legs at a time with each IBO. I seem to notice team members always in the top 25 PV in most of the achieve magazines. The stacking is just a trumped up charge.

Orin Woodward and Chris Brady are men of courage and character. No one builds a business of that size without getting their heart right first.

I'm sure you all are as well, because that's what it takes. So let refrain from the bashing of other IBO's

Well the cards are on the table and I'm sure the outcome will be of benefit to everone. I like Q, but I'm not excited about Amway. Pray for the best outcome!

deceivedteammember said: August 17, 2007 11:54 AM | #

Up until this month, TEAM leadership promoted the products - what a great deal they are. XS, and the other core line items. Now we read in their lawsuit that the IBOIA has been telling A/Q for YEARS that they are not competitive.

Very deceptive! They promoted products to continue to enrich themselves, even though they are telling A/Q they are over-priced!

In my opinion:

XS is the best Energy Drink. I've sampled others.

SA8 - Nothing cleans clothes better.

Glister MW - Concentration wins.

Catalog items (non core) - cheaper everywhere else.

Should I believe TEAM leadership who lied about the products, or A/Q who know about the high prices but refuse to be competitive? Which lier do I trust?

The Real Quixtar Blog said: August 17, 2007 4:32 PM | #

The past few days have been tumultuous for Quixtar. You just need to check out the news release about

LisBette said: August 18, 2007 11:28 AM | #

AJ – Please fill me in on this new MLM that the Team leaders are starting. I would be thrilled to be a part of it!

I am an Emerald IBO, have been in the business since before the switch to Quixtar, and have been present at many TEAM teaching and strategy meetings. NO ONE has EVER mentioned another MLM. Have there been meetings you know about that I might have missed?

Orrin Woodward has ALWAYS stated his goal was to build large enough numbers within the business to be able to influence pricing. In the meantime, he suggested we focus on the products we found to have the best value. He has worked diligently within the corporation, the IBOAI, and all the rules to try to influence the owners and managers of Alticor that their profits would increase if they were to reduce the prices on SOME products.

I am shocked, disturbed, and angry at the way the Quixtar/Amway people have handled this situation. I have been a loyal IBO, and loyal user of products, and a defender of the Quixtar/Amway name for years. And today I received an email telling me I have until noon on Monday to agree to abide by rules that, hmm, haven't yet been decided on. Subject to change.

Buddy, if this is how they treat loyalty, then I think you had better be nervous. TEAM now, who’s next?

Abraham said: August 19, 2007 4:29 PM | #

I am rather new in the building side of the business. There is much unknown but what I do agree with LisB. I have only heard of Orrin speak of getting better pricing and building the largest corporation online. I believe in the leadership development because it has tremendously changed my life. Training is training though no matter how you look at it. Trianing may not be neccessary for some, but for most, I feel that it os a must.

As for products, I have only been promoted to buy what makes sense to buy. It is sad that the name Amway is so taboo. But the name is the name that many have told me is the "devil". Not really, but I believe many have heard these same tidings concerning the Amway name.

Back in the day, the Chevy Nova was a good car and affordable in the US. The name Nova translates "No go" in spanish. So you can imagine the Mexican citizens weren't thrilled about a vehicle that would not go anywhere. I believe that is how the reaction is going to be with the "New look" of Amway. Great concept but bad marketing. Its unfortunate. Ford wanted to create an appeling girls sport car with lots of compartments and mirros. Great idea seeing how the Mustang was won over by all the guys, but poor marketing taught an expensive lesson that you can't market a vehilce to women and call it a Probe.

Why then after all this time and all the bad publicity does Quixtar want to change its name back to Amway? If there is a reason, I would like to know. Even if its just the wish of a dying family member. I will accept that, but not just cause.

jim said: August 20, 2007 6:37 PM | #

don wilson kick out of the busines no way! is this just internet propaganda

JULIAN Y MARIZA ESMERALDAS said: August 20, 2007 7:27 PM | #

JULIAN Y MARIZA AVELLANEDA

QUEREMOS DARLE LAS GRACIAS A QUIXTAR/AMWAY POR LA OPORTUNIDAD DE REALIZAR NUESTROS SUENOS Y POR UNOS PRODUCTOS DE PRIMERAY POR CUIDAR LOS NEGOCIOS DE TODOS LOS QUE QUEREMOS UN NEGOCIO DE POR VIDA Y PARA NUESTROS HIJOS ,HAY QUE DEJAR DE QUEJARNOS Y VAMOS A SALIR A LUCHAR POR LOS NUEVOS BONOS Y POR DAR ESPERANZA A MAS PERSONAS!!!!

WE THANK QUIXTAR/AMWAY FOR THE GREAT OPORTUNITY , WE LOVE THE PRODUCTS ITS TIME TO SHOW THE OPORTUNITY ,SHARE THE DREAM AND IMPACT OTHERS.

Tex said: August 21, 2007 11:32 AM | #

Abraham,

Japanese cars, or anything made in Japan, for that matter, used to be considered low quality junk.

Now, Japan enjoys the best quality reputation when it comes to cars, electronics, etc. A name doesn't have to stay the same, as shown by this example.

Vr said: September 2, 2007 2:58 PM | #

Team was going to 1,000,000 people and who was going to be afected on fame, money, legacy etc. if team desapear other can di it, but team is a team and they find the way

jthompson said: September 4, 2007 5:25 PM | #

If I wanted to be the next "Orrin Woodward" (a summary)

no, here is what i would need to do to be like Orrin

1. build my ego bigger than my Q business.

2a - Hide the Quixtar name as long as possible from new prospects… make them think they are getting into TEAM, and Quixtar is just a supplier

2b Quit appreciating the opportunity that Quixtar/Amway gave me. Start to disrespect them.

3. Think that our group is the most successful mlm organization in the world of quixtar

4. realize that Quixtar is cleaning up its act and b/c i live on the Quixtar edge, this includes me, so i better do something fast. (stacking, misrepresentation...)

5. plan a “negotiation” meeting with Quixtar by preparing a Lawsuit and threat of negative PR campaign against Quixtar…. that way if Quixtar says NO to me, I will make them wish they said yes to allowing me to break the 2year non-compete rule that has existed for years.

6. go into the meeting - present my 9point DO OR DIE offer to Quixtar… with my lawyer waiting in the parking lot with 47 page lawsuit and confidential iboai documents that I will make public…. all if Quixtar does not give me my way.

7. as soon as Quixtar doesn’t take my crap… hire ASHTON partners to (as their website says) “position information” to make TEAM look good and Quixtar look bad.

8. including starting freetheibo.com forum to propagate my message and foster loyalty of my downline. Banning all bloggers that gain too much influence or get TEAM ibos to question what I am telling them throught my people.

9. Accuse Quixtar of doing what i hired a PR firm to do - SPIN.

10. Be selfish, motivated by pride and greed.

but thank God, i am not like Orrin so i won’t do this.

jthompson said: September 4, 2007 5:33 PM | #

Lisbette - emerald

and

opinionated platinum,

1. platinum - what is you Quixtar Income? Pins don't always equate to income - structure of width/depth translates to income.

You can be a platinum and make less than $1,000 per month via the TEAM stacking/depth model.

2legged directions don't make no money!

(but you may be doing fine)

2. lisbette,

Lisbette - what are you going to do? Are you going to keep trashing Quixtar and building your Quixtar business? When are you going to resign your business?

Lisbette,

b/c you are one of the veteran/successful TEAM ibos... give me some feedback on a post I made earlier today

jthompson said:

September 4, 2007 4:14 PM | #

Read for yourself pg 11of26 that talks about (paraphrase) "you can't prepare 47 page lawsuit in 5min that has confidential iboai documents. The Aug9 meeting was an ambush with Orrins lawyer waiting outside with a lawsuit."

Do you think Orrin conducted this in a "christian way" or "Godly way"? (whether the non-compete is right or wrong)

_______

"Pastor" Dickie's Letter -

"Orrin decided to make a godly appeal to the Corporation to allow those who saw fit to leave in a proper and negotiated way that would be satisfactory to all involved. These are the things that Orrin desired:

1. Peace. All Orrin wanted was to settle this disagreement in a gracious way."

--------------------------

Does this "Ambush" attack on Quixtar sound like a "Godly Appeal"???

There is nothing "christian" about using a lawsuit and threat of negative press as leverage to get your ways.

Richard and Solveig Bertrand said: September 28, 2007 7:57 PM | #

In "THE REAL QUIXTAR BLOG" it said on Wednesday, Sept.26th------ "-----successful leaders that have quit or been asked to leave by Quixtar or Amway over the years and thier groups----"

DON'T MISS THIS!

Editor's Note: R&S, to be clear, you are asking people to look at comment YOU made (not Kia) at RQB. It's located in the Human Toll string of comments. -- RL

FRANCISCO Y CONSUELO HERNANDEZ said: July 25, 2008 5:38 PM | #

UN GANADOR NUNCA ABANDONA, ESTAMOS AQUI DE POR VIDA; GRACIAS QUIXTAR AMWAY GLOBAL POR LA OPORTUNIDAD DE AYUDARNOS A HACER NUESTROS SUENOS REALIDAD. RECUERDA ... SI QUIERES VOLAR CON LAS AGUILAS NO NADES CON LOS PATOS. LA META UN DIAMANTE EN CADA ESTADO DE U.S.A.

Editor's Note: We wanted to translate this comment before posting it. It says:

"A WINNER NEVER QUITS, WE'RE HERE FOR LIFE; THANK YOU, QUIXTAR AMWAY GLOBAL, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY OF HELPING US MAKE OUR DREAMS COME TRUE. REMEMBER... IF YOU WISH TO FLY WITH THE EAGLES, DO NOT SWIM WITH THE DUCKS. THE GOAL, ONE DIAMOND ON EVERY STATE."

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