Joint Statement Regarding Team

Friday, August 10, 2007  by Jim Payne
Category: Announcements, Rules, Quixtar Philosophy

Quixtar Inc., North American Founders Council, and Independent Business Owners Association International Board of Directors Joint Statement Regarding Team

The North American Founders Council (NAFC) and Independent Business Owners Associational International (IBOAI) are proud to represent the Quixtar business opportunity, especially during this exciting period of transformation in our business. Unprecedented investments by Quixtar are poised to help make our businesses stronger than ever – more than $60 million in new money in Quixtar Business Incentives, launch of training to help make IBOs more successful, and exciting new product and category launches. Overall, the company is spending more than $200 million in product development, brand building, training and compensation enhancements to make this business opportunity bigger and more successful than ever.

We are disappointed that the founders of the Team training organization, Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, and other IBOs affiliated with Team, have refused to move forward with the Quixtar business into this new and promising future. Given Team's unwillingness to work with the corporation to remedy their bad business-building practices, their stated intent to start a competing MLM and, ultimately, their decision to file baseless litigation against the business opportunity from which they have profited for years, the NAFC and IBOAI fully support Quixtar's decision to terminate these IBOs' businesses. The terminations of Woodward, Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Chuck Goetschel, Tim Marks, Kirk Birtles, James Martin, Aron Radosa, David Brandy, Benjamin Dickie, Bruce Gilbank, Michael Martenson, and Chuck Cullen will help correct practices that put Quixtar and all IBOs at serious and immediate risk of legal and regulatory action.

The NAFC and IBOAI stand firmly with Quixtar in an unwillingness to put our business and the businesses of hundreds of thousands of IBOs at risk of legal and regulatory action caused by Woodward and Brady’s practices.

We believe the Quixtar business is the best business opportunity in the world. We are prepared to work with the corporation and other IBOs who remain committed to their businesses as we move through this period of transformation to become stronger and more profitable, helping more individuals than ever before achieve success with a Quixtar-powered business of their own.

Comments

William said:
August 10, 2007 11:30 PM | #

I am an active working IBO, and I have faith in you.  As a billion dollar company, you all have more to lose than anyone else.  I am not a critic, I am a faithful working IBO that likes and supports the idea of a system.

Thank you for keeping your word and kicking off your transformation process.  

My only thought is please, please understand that there are many other abuses, such as promoting of Religious or Political views, that are offensive. As well as promoting the system as non-optional (i.e. requiring IBOs to sign up with a System kit).   I hope those who are guilty of breaking such Quixtar rules will be asked to change, or face the same consequences that TEAM did.

XLNC said:
August 11, 2007 12:09 AM | #

Your decision to take a tough stand in order to maintain the integrity (and improve the reputation) of your brand is to be commended.

Companies who are willing to cut the reputational risks out, even at a financial loss, find themselves leaps and bounds ahead of the pack in the future.  

Congratulations to your leadership for making this move.

Josh said:
August 11, 2007 12:11 AM | #

I second that motion.

Also would like to add...If you are a new person looking to get started....READ READ READ the contract you are signing when you register.

Do not let your sponsor just breeze through the registration process.  Have them explain what you are signing and agreeing to!

BSMs check box, arbitration check box, money back guarantee for 6 months...etc.

READ it, so you understand it!!

XSIBO said:
August 11, 2007 12:50 AM | #

How does this effect if at all us downlline IBOs to the terminated Diamonds? I am curios to know.Quixtar is the best opportunity and has the best products !!!!

Robin Luymes said:
August 11, 2007 1:02 AM | #

XSIBO: Quixtar remains committed to supporting all IBOs willing to work with the company in an ethical and legal manner. The company has issued communications to IBOs in the organizations of terminated business leaders to reconfirm that support and to invite Team, Legacy and 5K IBOs to continue working with the company. I hope you continue to be an active and valued member of the Quixtar family of IBOs!

rdknyvr said:
August 11, 2007 1:15 AM | #

Robin, are you pulling 'night shift' duty on the blogs tonight? Perhaps have a look at some of the feedback on the Alticor blog post... the Corp really needs to be a bit more contemplative, patient, and farsighted in its messaging there.

Keep up the good work! :)

Editor's Note:  I was up late, wasn't I? I felt compelled to monitor the conversation. This is a landmark time in our business and there are many ways in which we can fail. I don't think the author at the media blog intended to alienate IBOs within the group; the sentiment was more directed to the leaders whose names have become synonymous with the Team name.  RL

Jonathan said:
August 11, 2007 1:38 AM | #

In regards to Quixtar's attitude towards TEAM and wanting to "reconfirm that support" - the article on http://media.alticorblogs.com/ titled "Go Team, Go" is anything but encouraging to me as a Legacy / TEAM IBO.  It saddens me that such hatred can be posted on an official Alticor site towards Quixtar's OWN independent business owners.  You've lost my support.

Editor's Note: As I've commented below, the media blog post really was about a few IBO leaders with whom the corporation has had to work closely for some time. Most of us weren't in the meeting rooms or part of the dialog that resulted in the tone and tenor of that blog post.  That said, it seems the post has alienated some, which is unfortunate. The company remains committed to working with those who will pursue an ethical and legal business path ... I hope that does include you, Jonathan!  RL

Dave said:
August 11, 2007 3:23 AM | #

RE:XSIBO

Robin:  This entry on the Alticor Media Blog doesn't sound very supportive to me. You guys up at the "mother-ship" need to get it together!  This blog sounds hateful.

[Edited out copy of Alticor Media Blog post] [Editor Note: The Alticor blog accurately described what happened leading up to the termination of IBO businesses. It is unfortunate that some are viewing this as "hateful." It certainly was not apologetic about the company's actions. And it clearly shows to all that we gave opportunities to affected leaders to work with us, which they clearly rejected. RL]

HURT said:
August 11, 2007 12:23 PM | #

I am very hurt and disappointed in the way Alticor has responded to the the TEAM and Orrin Woodward.  I know personally that Orrin has always had the highest regard for the Company and the highest of moral integrity.  He has been working hard to better the already awesome opportunity the Company has created.  To see that other highly esteemed IBO leaders such as Billy Florence, Fred Harteis, Randy Haugen, and Don Wilson, among others join with Orrin in his drive to correct pricing issues must give it some credibility.  I have always been proud to have been associated with the founding families and the upstanding Company, but have been extremely let down from this responce from the Company.

R Smith said:
August 11, 2007 12:43 PM | #

I am proud to be working with Quixtar and the Team. My traditional place of employment (health care) just went through similar business differences.  The rhetoric that ensues is always uncalled for.

The immaturity and disrespect that is thought of and brought forth in print is shameful. My prayer  today for the human race is please God instill a measure oif Integrity in each one of us.

Daniel G. said:
August 11, 2007 1:09 PM | #

Hurt:

I am disappointed as well as confused.I am for the efforts to drop the pricing of the products,even if it means less compensation.WE CANNOT SELL THESE PRODUCTS WITH THE CURRENT PRICES. I Tell People not to worry about the prices they will be getting big rebate soon. I feel hurt as well.I know the Team leaders  have great character and ethics were only trying to get Q to lower the prices to make the business more attractive to  thw 95 % of america who cant see past the inflated prices. This business would outsell Walmart if the prices were right.

Sincere said:
August 11, 2007 1:37 PM | #

I believe that the TEAM has the corporation's best interests at heart. As an IBO who joined in 1988, I saw what the business climate was like when the products really WERE competitively priced. It was great. In fact, Amway used to publish forms that did price comparisons with branded products and broke it down to a cost-per-use basis so we IBO's could see the value. In recent years however, the corporation seems to have abandoned the effort to remain competitive. I used to convert my entire household of products over to the company's products out of loyalty. I can no longer afford to do that due to the current prices so I only buy what I have to have. Why hasn't Alticor addressed and CHANGED this pricing problem before it came to this. I am ashamed of the company's response to well meaning IBO's The ONLY reason that Woodward and Brady may have mentioned starting another company is because Quixtar has refused to make these changes. I agree that if the company has turned a deaf ear to it's IBO's, it should be sued, though I find it sad to have come to this. Please Quixtar, hear the IBO's and make the ammends. It's not too late.

Bridgett said:
August 11, 2007 2:31 PM | #

I find it "interesting" that HURT (Aug 11 12:23 pm) comments about Orrin's highest regard for "the Company" and uses the term "the Company" four times.

Is that how TEAM IBOs are trained to talk about "the Company", that they can't even say the name of the company?

Seems George Orwellian.

rdknyvr said:
August 11, 2007 2:37 PM | #

Robin, I would agree that technically, the information in the post on the Alticor blog is accurate -- but that's not good enough... its tone (especially the title, several "adjectives/adverbs," and last line) is destructive and lacking in judgement, and your editorial comments above are not a sufficient response from the Company (nor is your thoughful  new post at Real Quixtar). The Alticor blog post breaks all the basics of PR 101... in our company, if someone had posted like that in a blog that claims to represent the Corp's position, and especially now that there is a formal 'legal situation', they'd be burning shoe leather out the front door with an escort.

.

From the writing style and tone of the post, I'm guessing it's not something that you or Beth or Jim P would have written. It is possible to apologize for the tone, as I've posted over there, without undercutting your overall strong moral and legal position, and it should be done.

.

If you've actually read the "Complaint", and if you have some background knowledge of the history and facts, you will know how disingenuous and internally self-contraditory it is, but most TEAM IBOs don't have the full picture to see that, and the Alticor post serves only to harden their views, and short-circuits the possibility that they will do the necessary objective due diligence to figure that out. The 'blogger' made a mistake... an apology/clarification is required, at least for the tone. Please urge your Alticor colleagues to take the high road on this.

With respect,

rdknyvr said:
August 11, 2007 2:45 PM | #

And Robin, even if "the sentiment was more directed to the leaders" it's still not a smart move to attack that way. Jim P's posts, Alticor's press release, and the Joint Statement say it all and say it sufficiently. When you cross the line into ad hominem attacks, as the Alticor blogger did, you lose the overall argument, even if you are in the right and have the facts on your side, which you do.

Marcquel F said:
August 11, 2007 8:06 PM | #

I almost don't know what to say... How anyone could ever doubt the sincerity and sentiment of Orrin, Chris, and the several other successful IBO's is beyond me. It doesn't seem like anyone cares for the fate of the downline of any of the IBO's involved with the leaders in question, not quixtar the company, and not any other IBO's outside of team. At the end of the day the only people that still seem concerned with the fate of these IBO's is the aforementioned leaders! I'm sorry for those that feel that the company is in the right, as they must not understand the politics surrounding the situation, if one did there would be no discussion! I think actions speak louder then words, and the action of the TEAM leaders spoke VOLUMES. Never have we had such a well thought out business plan or step by step training, as much as the quixtar says they support the IBO i do not see training material or a competitive business plan put forth by them, only a compensation package. The fact that Time/Warner approached Orrin and Chris to publish their leadership book speaks for itself, and the fact that they committed all profit from sales of the book to charity speaks even more. As a traditional business owner I can see that TEAM leaders had a legitimate argument in the fact that no products besides alticor owned ones are competitively priced enough to make this a mainstream opportunity. Furthermore, the fact that the corporation wants to change the name to Amway or some derivative there of does not sit well with me and should not with any IBO as there is a negative connotation connected with that name, its bad product association and doesn't make much sense for business. And has any IBO really sat down and taken the time to critically think about why the corporation would want to change the name in the first place? In closing I think all IBO's need to sit down and do some critical thinking on the issues at hand, otherwise aren't we engaging in a mental attitude that is as bad   as someone who wont look at the business because they think they know all there is to know about how to make money, because they take everything they see at face value?

Pat H said:
August 11, 2007 11:52 PM | #

Quixtar will let the Team go, they can all write letters and get out. It will be several months before Team has anything put together anyway. Team has some leverage in the marketplace but not enough to put together a product line like Quixtar offered. They’ll be selling fuel addatives and vitamins for a while.

Team leaving Quixtar without a product line creates a mass of problems.

1. What about the Ibo’s and member clients who like the products…they won’t leave

2. In the interm all Team has is a cd and book selling busines That won’t sell!

3. Team upline is already recruiting downline in other peoples ” second teams” especially those on system since that is the only source of income for the near future. I’m seeing this happen already. A current Quixtar Emerald won’t be making much money with no PV. A current IBO on system looks like a life vest on the Titantic.

3 Who decides who goes where and how will the business be structured.

It will be a long and messy divorce

Eric S said:
August 12, 2007 12:06 AM | #

Robin,

Please quit justifying the post at the Alticor media blog. It was juevenile and childish, not worthy of a company of Alticor's stature.

Marcquel, the Team leaders may profess to care for their downline but it is Quixtar that is trying help them. Doesn't it seem strange that they choose to leave just as Quixtar is beginning to keep their promise regarding transformation? New products from Nutrilite and Artistry are being released. IBO compensation has been massively increased and yet they choose to leave just as those improvements are made. Could it be that the manner in which they run their system is more important to them then the Quixtar business the system is supposed to support? Quixtar's role includes proptecting this business for all of us. Could it be that Team leaders simply were not interested in legal compliance? Quixt3 must see that there is or there will be no business for any of us.

I participate willingly in a system also but we clearly understand that Quixtar is THE business which includes sponsoring and retail/IBO volume.  That does not seem to be the primary focus of Team. If that is true then that is the issue no matter how persuasive some are in their stage talk.

Tex said:
August 12, 2007 1:18 AM | #

Robin,

Contrary to the misinformed opinions above, the "Go TEAM, Go" statement wasn't strong enough.

The lawsuit the former IBO's filed was because the Quixtar products are overpriced, but think about how overpriced the tools TEAM and all other tool businesses I am aware of except for mine and Brad Doyle's (iteamusa.com). This is a MUCH larger problem than the Quixtar product prices, as they make several times more on tools than Quixtar products, and should be leveraged against the former IBO's while defeating their silly lawsuit.  

Marcus said:
August 12, 2007 1:41 AM | #

I'm an Amway retread from 15 years ago and I would never have joined Quixtar if it wasn't for the 100 plus partnership stores and the TEAM.  Having a choice of other products besides the overly priced Quixtar core products made a huge difference.  What made the most sense was the TEAM concept of building the business.  No one told me I had to purchase the tools or buy into the system.  No one told me I had to do anything in relation to the TEAM.  I was told it was MY business in Quixtar as an IBO and everything the TEAM offered was optional as a training system.  Did the TEAM members try to tell me it was in my best interest to follow the system if I wanted to build a profitable business? Sure.  The system is what leverages your time.  I guess the IBO's or prospective IBO's who felt they where pressured may also feel pressured by info commercials on television or on the radio or from telemarketers.  Maybe the problem was within themselves and not with the TEAM.  What gained my respect the most was the fact that the TEAM promoted educators like Robert Kiyosaki, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad".  I have been an IBO with Quixtar since May of 2007 and I have not had one bad experience with the TEAM or Quixtar.  I must say that I do agree that the core products, except for the Xs drinks, are over priced and are a hard sell for me and to prospective customers and new IBOs.  On a final note, as Scott Michael said, "People of integrity expect to be believed, and when they are not, they let time prove them right".  I guess time will tell who had the integrity in this matter, The TEAM or Quixtar.

KS in NC said:
August 12, 2007 2:21 AM | #

I know all of the lines on your IBOAI board--8 of 18 are gone--five thru BWW do not want you to see their sites so they don't add a link--Most of the board agreed with Woodward I think but were afraid to leave. I have a twenty year record through Britt and I know how they all feel concerning many products--and it is not the opportunity it shoud be---I did not renew in December thru BWW--I was going to get back in with someone thru Bill Britt who taught me much about life--I reached 4000 in 90's (way too difficult)and was poised to go on 9/1/99 with bunches of new folks--Everyone had to run from -statement Is it Amway ---I would say, "what do you know about it"..  I could tell the that internet was the real deal but with the rough beginnings of site and the prices of basic commodities being too high and vitamins going up(explaining concentration and "exclusive Brands"is a hard sell in old manufacturing towns in the south)..every exit with 5000 population has a Walmart.  Why can't we compete on basic commodities and food items? I noticed the business had flatlined for most groups but not Woodward and Brady--Why? I wondered..I was praying in June to find someone and I signed up with the solid fanastic moral leaders in Team through a fellow coach and had planned on finally succeeding.  I  never heard anything but praise for quixtar as I listened to the hopes of the Team leaders about helping transform quixtar to compete with Walmart on the web and hearing on leadership tapes put out this spring from the diamonds on Team about their affiliation with Quixtar as being valued.  I loved the helping and legal way that Team encouraged me to build the tap root first and lining up my prospects in groups who might be on each others lists to call in bunches for a house meeting which is what kept me from being secure with my 4000 in Amway.  I totally see the positive benefits of not competing for the same guy to get in your downline when showing the plan to two people who know each other.

To see what the lawyers got together to do to Woodward, Brady, Billy Florence and many longtime Diamonds and leaders on the IBOAI board--My faith in Amway which changed name and will soon go back to name has fallen.  The American Way of Rich and Jay that their children helped run will let the lawyers tarnish the name and the industry further-Has the company backed off of the free enterprise system.    Bogus lawyerspeak was the reason given for their termination.. if it is final! Come off of the money at the top and let us compete in marketplace and clean up the Brady woodward mess before the wonderful liberal press rips us all apart again!

Canadian Viewer said:
August 12, 2007 4:40 AM | #

The superior attitude of Alticor and the management of Quixtar will be the demise of the company.  No company can continue it's operations without the support of a team.  The team must be able to sell the products and promote the business opportunity.  It is not possible at this time to sell the products as they are over priced, and how can a business that has such a superiod attitude be promoted.

The integrity and character of the individuals such as Brady, Woodwood, Wilson and other out going IBO's should be highly prized.  Integrity and honor is why Amway first became sucessful, now this integrity and honor is being compromised by the failure of Quixtar to value and recoginize these assets.

It is time for the Quixtar to put actual facts down ASAP regarding pricing of core line products and how these core line products can compete in the public market place.  This has been requested now for over 7 years - so to now say everything is Rosy is not acceptable.

YankeeIBO said:
August 12, 2007 10:59 AM | #

This whole situation is extremely unfortunate for all of us and could get very messy, depending in large part on our focus and behavior. We are in a fishbowl of public opinion, and every word spoken here is spoken to MILLIONS of people, both in our business and outside it. Currently, most of us seem to be doing what the departed diamonds are depending on us to do--defending our positions LOUDLY and expressing opinions with only the barest amount of information to base them on--opinions that become translated as facts in the much larger court of public opinion. We have been down that road before and suffered for it. The questions we ought to be asking are:

$$ Why was this exodus timed as it was? The lawsuit wasn't drawn up while they were all sitting at the IBOAI table, this was the result of calculated planning over a number of months.

$$ What would they gain by using "uncompetitive pricing" as the basis for the suit? could it be that the bruhaha that ensues will create the perception of overpriced Q* merchandise that will work in favor of the new MLM?  ?????

$$ What did TEAM have to lose by staying? Well, if you read the fine print at the bottom of the now published QBI on the site, you will see that accreditation is one of the requirements. If you also read the Quixtar communication Platform that all accredited teams have to adhere to (http://www.quixtaraccreditation.com), It could be that some of those things would present a problem for the TEAM organization and leadership??

That said, the lawsuit has very little to do with the stated complaints, and everything to do with intelligent, crafty, and well-calculated positioning to put themselves (TEAM) in the best light, and keep us all from looking below the surface.

I, for one, would welcome ALL  remaining TEAM IBO'S to hang in there with the rest of us, seek accreditation, and reap the rewards you so richly deserve!

We should all now be remembering the POWER OF THE POSITIVE in our words, to transform our lives. I propose that we all stop participating in negative conversation, to avoid the backlash that will inevitably come. We all love this business, and the personal and financial rewards it brings with it--it's time to strengthen the ties that bind and move forward shining our own light!

"If you think you know everything, you haven't asked enough quesions!"

JonD said:
August 12, 2007 11:39 AM | #

TEAM is putting together a contract for an "XS" like beverage.  That is their first product.

They are going to have to drink a lot of it to make up for the lost volume with all of the other products.

Would I like lower prices... of course.  Who wouldn't.  I'd love to see that as part of the biz transformation too.  I agree, we could outsell Wal-Mart with lower prices.  The higher prices are likely used to pay the bonuses.  I'd prefer to see core line prices increase, and non-core items that you can get elsewhere, decrease, for competitiveness.

Increase eSpring, Nutrilite, Artistry, SA8, etc a little each.  Continue to show price comparisons on per use basis, etc.  It still works.  They are still very marketable.  Decrease "catalog" prices to be competitive.  Win-win.

Pat said:
August 12, 2007 2:27 PM | #

The facts!

       Team plaintiffs assert that Quixway has been operating an illegal pyramid since the late 90's.

        Why didn't they tell us!   GREED!

       Seminar after seminar we were told this was the greatest business on the planet, it was going mainstream, that it was exploding, well it's exploded all right....in the faces of these plantiffs.

       How many millions of dollars did these plantiffs collect while knowing full well the business was illegal?

(supposedly)

       They didn't have any trouble cashing those checks for many years...while signing new people up in an illegal business.

      Cars, houses.diamond rings ...all bought in part with money recieved through an illegal pyramid??

     Give to ceasar what is ceasar, are these men of God or men of gold?

    What are these leaders going to do with all of their " ill gotten gains".

     Are they still cashing those fat Quixtar checks?

   WWJD?

     Pricing issues?..We were taught by these same plantiffs ....The prospect that questions prices " doesen't understand the business" and was laughed at as they drove away. "Prices are irrelevant....the question is can you get rich doing this: is the battle cry on Consumer Rebellion.

Patricia Dobson said:
August 12, 2007 7:19 PM | #

I totally agree with changing the name back to 'Amway'.   It was not the Amway business that created the problems, it was the IBO's who made their own rules for greed detrimental to the business.  Amway has always promoted integrity in the business and never made it a rule to buy tapes, books or other training material.   The Company should never have changed the name - but then we all learn our lessons sometime.

lisa said:
August 12, 2007 11:21 PM | #

I have read as much about this as I can since Friday, including the full pdf of the Team lawsuit, but I still can't claim to know everything.  I'm still sorting out exactly how I want to move forward from here.  One thing I know for sure is that many of the IBOs who resigned or were terminated are the very ones that I most responded to and most respected in this business - Chris Brady, Orrin Woodward, Billy Florence, Randy Haugen.  I can't yet imagine staying in Quixtar without them as leaders.  I am inclined to believe what they say.  If they are starting a new business, then I am THERE.  I think that what they've said about the inflated pricing is right on and they are saying what so many of us have thought but didn't feel able to say.  I believe that they didn't say anything about it because they were trying to go through to the proper channels first.  I think it's true that the people who most benefit from Quixtar are Dexter and his friends, and I won't even go into my opinion on him, but I will say that it's much lower than my opinion of the former diamonds who have left Quixtar.

xsibo said:
August 12, 2007 11:36 PM | #

Every IBO in the downlines should be contacted and informed of this huge event in our business. At BDS nothing was mention of The TEAM not involved with Quixtar. I believe maybe 1% there were aware of this. Like us they don't know whats going on. Hopefully some answers soon. Quixtar keeping XS?

Canadianconnextion said:
August 12, 2007 11:56 PM | #

As a member in good standing I am appalled how this whole situation is being handled. Neither side has taken into consideration the “little people” in this debacle. As the millionaires and billionaires flex their might in an unnecessary power struggle it is the simple IBO that is hurt. Whether it’s a billionaire who is so out of touch he makes a decision without bouncing it off the field, or millionaires who allow destructive news to leak to the internet so it can haunt us for years to come, it damages the front line far more.

Gentlemen, the number one most destructive thing in our business is not high prices or structure it is the crap on the net and the name that has been our biggest challenge to growth. Amway is a great company however in North America because of its history of challenges the trademark has become a liability. 70% of my “no’s” are because of the crap on the net and we never send people to the net. Why do people hesitate to use the Quixtar name. Because it leads back to the Amway name. You want to know the truth. It is the ignoring of the net and the liability of the name that has slowed growth. The same stupid websites are still there and while we were promised these would be hunted down it has been years and still the negative exists. It’s not your brother in law’s laughing , it’s not the guys at work “opinions”, it’s the instant information and the belief in the printed word that stops a sponsoring. You would think with the overwhelming negative response from IBO’s to a name change that someone would catch on. Unfortunately when you give interviews to major trade magazines you will get yourself painted into a corner. Unfortunately  for our owner, like the emperor’s new clothes, no one wants to tell him that he is naked.

As for the pricing if anyone cared to compare the Coreline and XS with other products you would see we are completely competitive. Since the majority of our business has always been core then the challenge must lie elsewhere. There is a terrible blight on our business and it is not at the new IBO level. This infighting and swaggering by the elite must stop or there will be nothing left. The battle will be played out on the net and the loonies will use it against us for years. Our competitors will use it has proof positive that the company is a mess and every night we will have to fight against the perception you have given. All we ask is that you stop and think about us. Because it will be us that cleans up your mess every night for years to come. It will be us that faces unnecessary rejection and it will be us that lose good people before they even have a chance to chase their dream.

Jennifer Hanson said:
August 13, 2007 12:25 AM | #

As an IBO here in MI I think its about time that TEAM has recieved whats been coming to them for a long time. As someone who follows the rule and regulations I signed my name to I was getting tired of the bad rep that TEAM and its followers were giving Quixtar. I do believe i this business, and I would never lie about being affiliated with it as other "teams" have. Where do they think all their money started coming from.They might want to take a look at their records before they recieved their big tool sales checks and remember how they started their teams and who signed their checks then. Thanks for the clean sweep Alticor.

Sue Timpson said:
August 13, 2007 1:43 AM | #

I am a Team 5k IBO and to say I am upset by the events of the last few days is putting it mildly.  I told Chuck in June after a BDS that I didn't feel comfortable and he said trust me.  I did try, but our large leadership conference in Utah was the last straw.  Politics and Religion don't belong in business.  I am not leaving Quixtar and I hope we can get back on track soon.  Quixtar IS a great business!

Dixie said:
August 13, 2007 2:09 AM | #

(CHEER) "Go, TEAM, Go"; "Go, TEAM, Go"!

You tell us to Go, TEAM, Go!  Well, we will turn that into our battle cry and cheer our leaders on to victory with cheers of "Go, TEAM, Go"!

Men of principles cannot be bought or sold!  The Great 8, as they are now known in the blog forums, are all men of high principles and integrity.   They have the full support of their wives, families and TEAM.  One of them, Reverand Dickie, is an active Minister and mentor to Orrin and Chris!  Would he have resigned if it were not the right thing to do?  I know Orrin and Chris and their reputation, what they stand for and the people they lead are far more important to them than any monetary gain.  Their actions prove it!  They sacrificed themselves for me, the new IBO, just as Jesus did for us all over 2000 years ago and they are getting crucified by Quixtar and Alticor because of it!

Orrin and Chris have told the TEAM to run their IBO businesses as usual and continue to bring more IBOs into Quixtar and the TEAM, knowing that their cause is right and just and a Jury Trial to address the issues that Quixtar refused to address at any IBOAI meeting will win out, and when Quixtar is forced to implement the changes required by the Court, it will benefit us all.  They have not told us to quit or leave Quixtar or that they are planning a new MLM or product line!  Who started that rumor?  Quixtar!  Quixtar started the mudslinging.  You will not find any such mudslinging blog on the TEAM's website.  If you truly want to know more about TEAM and what they stand for then check out:  www.the-team.biz

David said:
August 13, 2007 2:21 AM | #

Patricia?   IBO Greed?

Why not address the Jay Factor?

cost X 3?

A 30 - 35% profit margin for two families seems a little "greedy".

Don't you think?

Greg said:
August 13, 2007 4:10 AM | #

I've noticed some very significant differences between what Alticor had to say versus what The TEAM leadership had to say.

The TEAM leadership said "It is important as we proceed further that no one disparages Quixtar, Amway, Alticor, or any of its constituents or employees in any way." The TEAM leadership also let us know that they requested that Quixtar lift the "no compete" rules and give IBOs a CHOICE as to what they want to do (ie stay in quixtar or leave to pursue other legitimate business opportunities even in competition with quixtar.)

"After the IBOAI meeting, roughly a third of the board members felt so strongly about what had been learned that we couldn't go forward and continue, in good faith, to represent the business.  We had been assured numerous times that if we had a problem going forward, we should approach Quixtar/Alticor's lead counsel to discuss terms of departure."  "This lawsuit does not seek damages or retribution."

Thus far all I've heard from Alticor and Quixtar is "just Go Team."   "We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true."

Oh I can't forget "So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door."

First off, I DON'T KNOW ANY LEGITIMATE BUSINESS THAT WOULD EVER SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT ABOUT *ANY* OF THEIR BUSINESS ASSOCIATES, EMPLOYEES, DISTRIBUTORS, OR SUB-CONTRACTORS ETC EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE!!  Every other company I've ever worked for has held in strict confidence the terms and reasons of why someone no longer works for their company.  

Second I've read the entire lawsuit.  Quixtar is currently being operated as an illegal pyramid due to the policies in place however if it would just revert back to the established guidelines that were established by the original amway company to keep them from benig a pyramid then this business could be very lucrative.

Kbloom said:
August 13, 2007 9:03 AM | #

Transparency seems to be one way.  Most of these bloggers talking against Orrin and Chris leave alot of information about themselves out.  I started in 2002, and built it the 6-4-2 way for 3 years.  I went from 21%/4000pv to 3%/100 PV in one month, went from an organization of 25 down to 3 in the wonderful renewal process the "Q"/Alticor has in place.  Since adopting the team concept of building teams, I went from 3% to Platnium in 18 months.  TEAMS system is without a doubt the best.  Ms. P. Dobosn, it sounds like your a plant by alticor to keep these bloggs negative agaist Chris and Orrin and the TEAM.  The other possibility is that your a non-builder of the buisness.  If you were a builder, and you were in the homes every night you would know the Term "Amway"  has more negative then does companies such as: World Comm and Enron.  What Chris and Orrin are saying and doing is something that I have felt for years needed to be done, and I am as proud of them as I am of the Founding Fathers who also had the "guts"  to stand up and go through a messy divorce.  I will follow my diamond and Chris and Orrin as they are the ones who have put the time and energy into me, I have 0 loyalty to Quixtar/Alticor, as they serve as an overpaid "Human Resoruces" and have no higher standing then my present employer. As for the timing issue, I suggest that you read "The Art of War".  cya

team guy said:
August 13, 2007 12:31 PM | #

All i can say is that I would follow Chris and Orrin into battle anytime and anywhere! They are the definition of character, integrity, and morality! As far as the corp. is concerned everything they do and have done they know about and know why they do it. I don't understand why the team building process is looked at as bad by anyone, especially the corp. Figures don't lie, every one was flat lined and couldn't grow, but TEAM exploded. Why?? Because it doesn't work right. Give me a break. The big 8 I applaud you and know that anything that happens to you will be great because you are all great.

Ohio IBO said:
August 13, 2007 1:42 PM | #

A lot could be said about this whole situation, and that's evidenced by the various blog posts. Really, after it is all said and done, it's about 2 competing philosophies.  Quixtar/Amway is focusing and moving in the direction of Content & Commerce, while Team is focusing & moving in the direction of Community.  That said, it should be a relatively simple decision for IBO's with Team, if they are given that choice.  As a Team IBO, I know what my decision would be. As far as the name change back to Amway, it is absolutely absurd.  Anyone actively building the business (not just focusing on retailing, but  actively building a group) will tell you "Amway" has too many negatives associated with it.  So many, in fact, many potential prospects ask if it's Amway, and if so they're not interested. Great Industrial Age Business Model, except this is the Information Age. The other thing is, most stats I've seen indicate about an 87% failure rate.  Not very inspiring to the new person. As for all this negative vernacular towards Team, not only is it unprofessional, but some of it has a nasty overtone.  I would say there are some who have emotional maturity challenges.  

G_W said:
August 13, 2007 2:08 PM | #

Hooray for Quixtar/Amway!

I just like to say that I'm so pleased to see Q/A deal with some of the bad actors in a public way. I've now got something I can point at to show skeptics that the company does, in fact, take compliance seriously.

Of course the "Team" members will be upset – they've been getting away with flaunting the rules the rest have had to play by – don't let them discourage you in doing the right thing.

Note: I am sure that most of the IBO's caught up in the TEAM scandal are great people that just didn't realize they were being duped… hopefully they'll get the facts and then get involved in a organization that plays by the rules. Any hostility should, of course, be reserved for those that perpetrated the bad behavior and those that condone it.

Piet Strydom said:
August 13, 2007 2:45 PM | #

I have done a lot of reading tonight about the various positions. TEAM has stated to the corporation that they (TEAM) wants to start supplying their own product into their IBO organisation, i.e. have the IBO's have relationships with two different MLM companies. Which is why they are so hammering on getting the non-competes waived.

Now, Alticor, and its preceding companies, have spent decades building a distribution channel, and building a reputation as a supplier of premium quality products. Do you really expect them fall over backwards, and allow TEAM to push their own products through the channel?

Or to allow TEAM to take away the IBO org, every which one has a legal agreement with Quixtar in place. Where would it leave those IBO's? Going from a company with a huge product portfolio, with decades of experience, to TEAM? With a reputed XS contract?

I would assume that TEAM at the very least have other products in the pipeline, otherwise their actions would be mind boggling. But even so, how will they ramp up volumes, distribution.

They should have stuck to their knitting, even if their knitting caused serious problems over the years - Procter and Gamble springs to mind!

They have forced the issue, one by refusing to submit to the rules, and two, by stating their intention to start their own MLM. This has given AMWAY the excuse to be able to clean up the marketing practises used by BSM's, which was seriously required.

It would seem that TEAM didn't realise the diminished importance of America-only groups in the globalised Amway business of today.

LisBette said:
August 13, 2007 5:35 PM | #

G_W, what are you smoking?  Team has been flaunting the rules?  Get something straight.  Team received the approval of Quixtar AND the IBOAI to build way it has.  The SA4400 modified by Quixtar is proof of that. Woodward and Brady have ALWAYS told IBOs to register new IBOs according to Quixtar rules.  

Quixtar's claim that Woodward and Brady were terminated because they violated the rules is just plain bogus.  And why has no one from the corporation commented on the SA4400 they approved specifically sanctioning the Team's methods?

Allan S said:
August 13, 2007 6:58 PM | #

The issue regarding the SA4400 isn't about the document. It is that the document was not used when showing the plan.This lawsuit, which is more of a plea to the public then litigation, is just a request to be released from a contract they all knew they had. Attacking the business as a pyramid has nothing to do with the non-compete and is not the high road they purport to be on. It truely demonstrate who and what they are.

Not justifying Alticor's "go team" comments. They were offensive but pale in comparison to Team's actions.

G_W said:
August 13, 2007 7:39 PM | #

@LisBette, When it comes to the question of "what are the rules?" … you'll have to forgive me for taking Quixtar's word ("serious and immediate risk for legal and regulatory action") over yours.

Of course it's possible Quixtar is flat-out lying… but in my experience it's much more likely that the one stretching the truth is the recently terminated and angry person… NOT  the coroporation with lots to loose in a lawsuit for libel.  

I don't have a clue what the modified SA4400 is… never seen/heard of it.

Even assuming that you're right and Quixtar historically had approved of this "stacking" (which I don't know to be true… but for the sake of argument…) we all know that Quixtar has recently been engaged in reform and cleaning up bad business practices along with the move back to the Amway name. It's perfectly logical to believe that as a part of this, Alticor approached many organizations to work with them on fixing problems (even ones that may have been supported in the past) – and "stacking" is now viewed ad a serious legal risk. I find this scenario fantastically more plausible than Quixtar lying in such a blatant and public manner.

TEAM may disagree with the assessment of stacking as serious legal risk, but the contact is with Alticor and they make the rules. Play by the rules, or don't play. Anyone that flaunts the rules gives everyone a bad name.  

HSW said:
August 13, 2007 7:41 PM | #

PLease read todays posting on “The Real Quixtar Blog”, Monday, August 13, 2007

Category: Opportunity, Transformation

“Meanwhile, the (Quixtar)Sales team is contacting leaders at the Platinum level or above within Team and other affected organizations, reaching out to them, inviting them to continue their Quixtar businesses, and seeking assurances they will build ethical businesses within Quixtar’s rules. We’re glad to see that the vast majority of those contacted see the value in the Quixtar opportunity and the safeguards provided by the Rules of Conduct to preserve and protect the hard work of many IBOs”.

Question to all of you: Why does Quixtar sales contact these leaders within TEAM now? Is it because Quixtar has a different support to offer than in the past? Or because Quixtar is trying to undermine TEAM’s wish to build an ethical and people orientated business?

I was contacted and heard bad mouthing stories about my upline and the TEAM.

TEAM doesn’t contact anybody through the back door. They use the front door with facts and not gossip! We don’t sell! We build a foundation of trust that others can build their future on.

Kim said:
August 13, 2007 7:48 PM | #

Yes, "Team" has been flaunting the rules! They have done it for some time. They forced this issue out into the open. Q had been working to get them to change but they ("TEAM") were running out of time.

The way I see it, (IMHO) they don’t meet accredidtion for their BSM’s. So next month they would have to explain to their “TEAM” members why they don’t quaifiy for the new QBI bonuses. So the backdoor blackmail deal to take their “people” to a new mlm was rejected by Q and their businesses were terminated. They file a lawsuit to distract from the real issue. (BSM’s, stacking and their desire to start their own mlm.) Q files an injuction to keep them from “looting” their LOS’s and saying nasty things about the dealings with Q. So you say it in a lawsuit that you know everyone will read. That lets you take the “High” road, yet, gets your word out.

G_W and Piet Strydom have a pretty good grasp of the sitution. Rdknyvr andYankeeIBO your post are some of the more “right on target” that I have read. (IMHO)

Thomas J said:
August 13, 2007 10:07 PM | #

This  is extremely negative and surprising as I just now have read the blogs and still do not have any details to know what is happening. I guess I am too new to even know what is rumored going on behind closed doors. Regardless of being new, I do know a few truths.

1.   YES, Amway the name and connection is definitely a liability and will, and has, slowed acceptance of prospective IBOs.

2.  Prices of products would intuitively seem to be able to be a little better if we truely are building an expanding online commerce community, based on membership. Is this not what Costco does in brick and mortar?

3.  If we could create an online community of better prices and very good compensation for membership growth, the general public would bust your door down to get registered. Again, a successful history of the Costco model, so to speak.

Who cares who said what. What is needed now is someone to get a grip on this whole issue and quickly resolve the differences in a way that unites the  bickering parties. Unfortunately, I feel that will not happen and the IBOs at the bottom will be the ones taking the bullets for the millionaires.

*** DeVos said:
August 13, 2007 11:13 PM | #

Amway just made the biggest mistake in their history.

I guess I can go back to buying products for half the price now!  Go Orrin and Chris!!!!!

Editor's note by Anna Bryce:

Portions of this comment have been edited to comply with the civil discourse aspect of the Opportunity Zone's comments policy.

ThePearl said:
August 13, 2007 11:57 PM | #

Could someone clear something up for me? What is stacking and what is wrong with it? It sounds like depth building and I can't see the issue with that. Maybe I'm missing something.

As for what's going on - both sides should grow up. There seems to be a lot of skirting around the real issues by both sides.

computer freak said:
August 14, 2007 4:50 AM | #

interesting that they were terminated right before fiscal year end bonuses. quixtar saved millions in bonuses, and then kept the downline they built.

BMB said:
August 14, 2007 10:32 AM | #

What bothers me most about all this?  The lawsuit against Quixtar/Amway by Brady, Woodward, et. al. over and over again stated that the Corporation was operating an illegal pyramid scheme.  How could these men who have made their fortunes in association with the corporation and, as some TEAM members say in this blog, are telling their people to CONTINUE to bring new IBOs in under Quixtar, have the audacity to link this illegal practice we all have to dispel ever day in building our businesses!  How ethical is that?  This lawsuit was not drawn up yesterday and was definitely thought out well. These "TEAM leaders" know that. They are obviously pulling out all the stops to try to discredit Quixtar in order to benefit themselves.  What else could the answer be?  They burned bridges when they stated over and over again the owners of Quixtar were operating an illegal business.  

I have lost all respect for those so-called "respected men".  This was handled very poorly and with NO REGARD to any of the IBOs who are building integrity-based businesses -- including especially -- the people TEAM is trying to recruit for their MILLION 'army'.  

Let's all remember what happened in the story of Icarus --- sounds like humility for these men is non-existent and will be their downfall, and hopefully not ours too.

Stephen A. Draper said:
August 14, 2007 10:40 AM | #

I saw this same thing happen in my own upline several years ago.  I kept my Quixtar business when my upline was terminated by Quixtar.  They started a company called Team In Focus with all kinds of great promises.  I started buying my products which were very good through Team in Focus.  Eventually most of the founders of Team in Focus abondaned it and Team In Focus no longer exists.  I am glad I did not burn any bridges and kept my Quixtar business intact through that challenging time.  I did not raid my own or any else's downline to build a new MLM.  I am glad to see Quixtar finally getting rid of the old school Diamonds who refuse to change their unethical ways.

I have seen many comments on here talking about how great many people think these disciplined Diamonds are.  Most of these people have only seen the "Public" image of these diamonds.  They have not seen the "Private" image of these diamonds.

I must say I have never met a Diamond I did not like.  They are impressive people; that is why they are Diamonds.  However, some are masters of disguise and the unethical ones should be removed.

T Cotta said:
August 14, 2007 11:27 AM | #

Remember that the owners of Quixtar have never been IBOs and are therefore a tremendous portion of the "multi-billion" dollar company that Quixtar is goes into the families' pockets.  They also seem very insensitive to what it takes to be out in the market building the business and that is proven to me by the fact that they are changing the name of a company that was never named Amway to Amway.  When the products were competetive, people began building businesses.  Some became very successful and now have many IBOs in their LOS.  But what they found as time went on was that getting and keeping customers was becoming more and more of a challenge because the products on the shelves were improved, concentrated and cheap.  We all continued to promote the opportunity as best as we could.  Once you build a sizable LOS, you are at the mercy of Quixtar's decisions.  No one wants to lose their LOS, for some, this is their only source of income.  Adding XS was a life saver but even XS is becoming overpriced as more and more energy drinks hit the shelves.  I saw a 12 pack of the #2 drink for $8 at the store.  Long-term, Quixtar needs put a plan in place to continuously stay competetive in the market for us IBOs to be successful when e-commerce goes mainstream in the next 5 years.  I am hearing they are investing this and that but I don't see prices going down.  And the shipping...oh my goodness, no one charges those rates anymore!  Remember, e-commerce is only 3% of total retail.  As this ratio increases do you think prices will go up or down on the internet?  Quixtar, get with it please....for all of us.

Piet Strydom said:
August 14, 2007 11:35 AM | #

To ThePearl: The general Amway plan refers to putting your IBO's next to each other below you, on the same line. Stacking refers to the widely adopted practice of putting them in a vertical line below you, as well as everybody they put in.

The width approach is profitable, but not very stable. the stacking method generates more enthusiasm, but is much less profitable. It easily leads to a windtunnel. (A long row of zero's in the PV column) *Apparently* one of the problems with the TEAM approach is that they overemphasised the depth aspect, and heavily promoted tools.

This lead to people being out of pocket for the tools, while struggling to earn income from the business, as they only had one leg below them.

You need a balance between the two. Exactly where that balance is, is difficult to prescribe.

Piet Strydom said:
August 14, 2007 11:39 AM | #

To computer freak: They were terminated when they made known their intention to start a rival MLM company. This is clearly in violation of their IBO agreements with Amway, and Amway terminated their agreements.

If you peruse the internet you will see that Team of Destiny, as they were originally known, has a long history of problems associated with them. I am certain Amway grabbed the opportunity with both hands. (Which seems to be close to the truth, if you have a look at their initial announcement.)

Piet Strydom said:
August 14, 2007 11:43 AM | #

To HSW: You might not be aware, but your contractual relationship in this business is with Quixtar, not TEAM. Quixtar is not going through the "backdoor" if they contact their contracted distribution channel to provide them with their point of view first hand.

Just one question, where are you going to earn your money from in future?

Casey Mulclihy said:
August 14, 2007 12:04 PM | #

I've been a Amway and now Quixtar IBO since 1991.  Referrig to pricing above, I've always found "Amway, now Quixtar" laundry products and household cleaning products are priced with a "good bang for the buck".  Other Quixtar products are not.

I don't know what is Alticor or TEAM - I never heard of these names till today. I got an email from Quixtar and started looking on the web and found this blog.  All of  my upline has quit or quit building their businesses, except for my Diamond! This includes 2 directs in my line of sponsorship, and one of them is a Ruby! Why?  They won't tell me? Something must be wrong. I would like to know, but I'm in the dark.

I thinks a price reduction in products would be good overall.

CC said:
August 14, 2007 12:24 PM | #

I agree that the prices of products (especially the core products) should be more competative.

JG said:
August 14, 2007 2:31 PM | #

If you are part of Quixtar and  you are part of TEAM, Quitar has no right to have you quit one or the other.  

Thought we lived in America??  Thought we had freedom to choose??

If a person wants to be in more than one MLM then why should anyone care, it's like buying a Ford and a Chrylser... the freedom to buy, and own.

Bob Brookshire said:
August 14, 2007 3:32 PM | #

It was during the  June 2007 Quixtar Connection that I first caught wind of the change aka "The Transformation" from one of the staff at the Quixtar Spaulding facility.

Having been an Amway Distributor way back in the 70's and once again having an opportunity to be part of the greatest business phenomenon the world has ever known, I felt an upsurge of excitement.

I was hoping that those who are now part of Quixtar would be proud of its roots and accept this name change and adoption with grace and pride.

The first thought I had getting on the bus at Alticor was that I was in a minority. Everywhere I looked, I saw excited Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, etc. etc. And Hispanics, European and Africans

Countries that just a few years ago were Communist were there celebrating the idea of free enterprise. I saw the excitement and near fanaticism of some of them wanting have apart of the American dream and they were and are succeeding.

They are doing on a vehicle called “Amway”

It saddens me to see the family: the American part of the family has fallen apart.

It is even more distressing to see that the people who had this wonderful vision “the team” can't or won't see what I saw at the 2007 Connection.

What I see is a world full of opportunity.

What I see is that for those of us who will ride out this storm, even greater opportunity.

What I see is that if we will accept responsibility for our choices. We will grow regardless of this present challenge.

As for me and my Quixtar house:

Welcome Home Grandpa Amway. Let sit down and talk

LisBette said:
August 14, 2007 4:12 PM | #

Stephen A. Draper, unlike you I HAVE seen the private side of several diamonds personally.  You know, been to their homes, spent time with their children, their parents, and other family members (even those not in the business!). I've been to church with them, seen them spend thousands of hours on improving themselves and their businesses so they can help more people.

Woodward and Brady are even better in private than what they show in public.  More humble, more selfless, more interested in making the best business opportunity possible. If they are masters of disguise, then I think they have fooled even themselves!

G_W said:
August 14, 2007 6:08 PM | #

@LisBette & all TEAM defenders – in case you haven't done so already, please go read Quixtar's explanation of the difference between depth building and stacking. I know it's hard to see people you look up to engaged in bad-behavior, but don't fall on your sword for them… at least not till you have all the facts.

Willingness to look at the facts is the dividing line between faithful followers and cult members.

Quixtar would not be taking this kind of dramatic action that will seriously hurt their bottom line (at least in the short term) unless they had some very good reasons… I respectfully suggest that you ought to give some serious thought to those reasons.

TEAM said:
August 14, 2007 11:27 PM | #

The adolecent acts of Quixtar in their past statements against TEAM is appauling. Like the comment above "...Quixtar wouldn't be taking this kind of dramatic action that would seriously hurt "their" bottom line..."you couldn't be more right.

Their are in it for "them". Please do your own research be for you assume anything. Afterall, we all know what happens when we assume right?

TEAM, in and of itself, is 40% of Quixtar's over all volume in North America....of course they will take every action they can to keep you blind to the actual truth. My hope is that each of you truly looks at this with open eyes. But, that's a bit hard when they're not telling you the truth, just the part that "benefits" them and you temporarily.

It truly is unfortunate it's come to this...the saying rings true, the nail that raises its head above the others gets pounded the most. Pound away if you feel so apt to do so, just try not to be ignorant of the other side of the story.

Brooke Hummell said:
August 15, 2007 1:36 AM | #

This is the INFORMATION AGE...as we have all been taught so diligently. The information from the general public is "We do not want anything to do with Amway" how then are all of us fellow business owners suppose to broaden our businesses if the moment people hear the word Amway...they run the other way? The facts and INFORMATION is clear, please consider our pleas. I fear for the company as a whole if this actually goes through. Let's stand together and seek out solutions as a team, the Quixtar team.

Brooke Hummell said:
August 15, 2007 1:38 AM | #

This is the INFORMATION AGE...as we have all been taught so diligently. The information from the general public is "We do not want anything to do with Amway" how then are all of us fellow business owners suppose to broaden our businesses if the moment people hear the word Amway...they run the other way? The facts and INFORMATION is clear, please consider our pleas. I fear for the company as a whole if this actually goes through. Let's stand together and seek out solutions as a team, the Quixtar team.

Allan S said:
August 15, 2007 2:04 AM | #

Well "Team",

You 40% number is a perfect example of the distortions and exagerations that are spread by your organization.but if it is. 4 or 40, think for a moment.Why would Quixtar threaten that much volume if it was being generated legally? They make money also off the volume.For years there has been accusations that Quixtar looked the other way when it came to violators. What ever the number I for one am glad that they have stepped up and are protecting all our futures by preserving the integrity of this business even while I remain tremendously disappointed in Alticor's juvenile approach to their blog.

HSW, Quixtar is not using any back door with IBOs affiliated with Team. Everyone of them have a contract with Quixtar and Quixtar has an obligation to communicate with them and explain options. None of us are owned by anyone we have the right to receive the information and choose for ourselves.

ROBERTO said:
August 15, 2007 3:13 AM | #

THANK YOU, FOR THIS SPACE; WE ARE VERY CONFUSED OF THIS MOMENTS, THE MOS IMPORTANT NOT OCURRED IN MY BUSINESS

Clark said:
August 15, 2007 8:53 AM | #

I have read numerous statements from both sides and truthfully dont know on which side to choose. The comment I will make is that I called both Quixtar and my Diamond (the-TEAM) and neither of them answered or returned my call. My Diamond sent me an e-mail imediately after I called with attachmenemts of the posted statements from the web. Of which it did not not answer any of my questions.  

I still have not recieved a call from him or the big Q. My question is how does Team's leaders and training termination affect me. Im starting to believe that the little guy/ new IBO dosent really matter, just thrown aside.

I have read and listened to the cd's from the (Team) and have only been a IBO since June. So as you can guess, I'm in the dark and neither side has steped up to show what paths are availble and what I am expected to do about building or what support I have now that the Team materials are not accepted by Quixtar. Do I get traded like they do in sports or just lost in the back field of the main event?

Thanks

Editor's Note: Clark, sorry that you have not been contacted. As you can expect, Sales staff are making a ton of calls to various IBOs and it's quite possible they haven't made their way through the list.  RL

MAB said:
August 15, 2007 9:48 AM | #

Clark,  the little guy has the most power.  Because without the bottom of the leg growing, there is no business.  It is going to take alot of us little guys standing up and saying enough for all sides to start listening.

My upline said "watch the team web site www.the-team.biz"  well that only tells you the team side of the story.  I suggest looking at Quixtar sites like this one to see other views or even check out other Quixtar group sites to see if they have anything posted.  You might be enlighted as to what they say.  You will also have a better understanding of the issues at hand.

As far as  your business is concerned continue on.  Use the rules you know and if you have questions on proper building call Quixtar customer support they will get you in contact with the right people, or I'm sure your DIAMOND/ platium does care about their organization.

TEAM Supporter said:
August 15, 2007 12:17 PM | #

In response to Pats' comment about the TEAM leaders knowing Quixtar is a pyramid and not telling us. First of all when I read your comment, I thought to myself (no kidding, we've trusted all along what our uplines tell us, and believe that its not a pyramid, and have to defend our position to new prospects almost everytime we show this plan), but I also agree with LisBettes' comments above. I have been on the TEAM for a few years now and have had the privilage to assoc. with several of the Diamonds and other PLAINTIFFS outside of the public eye.  These men have on more than one occasion, went to Quixtar with their concern about overpricing, and were repeatedly told that they are working on it, so they were in fact trying to fix the problem before making any major moves.  In this type of business, internal consumption only, makes it illegal.  If you've built this business for any length of time, you would know that it is extremely difficult to retail these products to customers, because of the prices.  I personally love alot of the products, however, when I have a strict budget that I have to follow, I cant afford to order a tube of toothpaste for cost X3 plus S&H, when I can go to a dollar store and get it for a $1.  How can we be expected to sell these products to members or clients, when we can't even use them ourselves.  I believe alot of prayer, thought, and investigating has led these leaders to do what was absolutely necessary for their TEAMs, and I firmly believe that in the end, TRUTH will triumph.

And as for the system, which the TEAM makes well known that it is optional, has helped so many people in their business, their home, at work, and many other aspects of life. It has literally changed lives. For me personally it's made me a better wife & mother, and has made a huge impact on my marriage.

This situation is very disturbing, it's like a slap in the face for all involved, and will affect thousands of people in the future, regardless of who comes out on top. I think that the lower level IBOS are the ones suffering the most at this point, not really knowing whats gonna happen or who to trust, or just flat out knowing the legalities of it all. So all we can do is sit and wait.   I just pray that the court will look very closely at both sides and come to a fair and just solution. Because I think we all know that it's a great business, we know it's the way of the future, and our leaders are just trying to make it better.  And Obviously, Quixtar saw something in these guys or they would not have let them on the board.  

Again,  TRUTH WILL TRIUMPH IN THE END.

Jackie L said:
August 15, 2007 12:41 PM | #

Pat H., you comment that "all Team has is a cd and book selling busines That won’t sell!" That "cd and book selling business" has changed my life! It has made me a better person, a better wife and mother and has GREATLY improved my daughters chance in life for not getting roped into 95% thinking and the "45 year plan" like most of us have been trying to make a living on for most of our lives! If that is "all Team has" I'd still sign up! I look at Orrin Woodward & Chris Brady (and many other leaders of Team) and I envy their relationships with their wives, their children (and yes, with their Creator!) and can only hope that everyone could know them for who they really are.

Emory Riley said:
August 15, 2007 1:27 PM | #

I find it intersting that people say that they cannot sell the products at the current prices. I and many others on my team do rather well in retailing the products. It is through product knowledge and demonstrating the products that value is proven to the customers. Instead of complaining about the prices, try to find out what those who sell successfully are doing and copy them!

I am proud to be associated with Quixtar and I am glad they are standing up to a few who have forgotten that it is by serving our downline that we all get to grow both personally and professionally.

Opportunity? said:
August 15, 2007 8:01 PM | #

I am really disapointed with Alticor/Quixtar.  It is one thing to make hard decisions regarding their buisness, but to be negitive regarding the IBO's that resigned/terminated is not very professional.  

Those IBOs are good people making tough decisions as well.  We may not agree but does it have to be so dirty.  Alticor/Quixtar has seemed to be the most negitive.  I have not heard anything negitive from the IBOs tat resigned/terminated.  

I really think Alticor/Quixtar should take the high road and apologize for allowing the negitive things they have been promoting.  

 

Editor's Note: The IBOs who were terminated filed a class action lawsuit against the company. I don't know how that cannot be viewed as a negative statement. It threatens the company's business and the business of every single IBO.  RL

Max said:
August 15, 2007 10:02 PM | #

If you are doing well selling the products at the current pricing, can you imagine the growth of your business if the founding families reduced the 30% they take off the gross sales of all Quixtar products (the "Jay Factor")? And never have to be concerned about being related to "AmWay"??  I can't wait for this nonsense to be over with!  Soon, we will have the same products, website, bonuses, etc... but will no longer have to deal with the negative "AmWay" reputation.  Add this to providing a service of time saving, online shopping and home delivery of goods that costs less than any store front retail center and WOW, we're going to make history!! Good times are coming!  Stay with "AmWay" at your own risk!

Lucy Jacob said:
August 15, 2007 11:15 PM | #

I agree that the prices are getting out of reach for most folks and are getting less competative.  Also, the shipping is really expensive.  I've also noticed that as the prices have gone up, the PV in some instances has been reduced.

I love the products, but eventually, I will not be able to justify the cost.

Siretha Griffin said:
August 15, 2007 11:36 PM | #

Quixtar/Alticore/Amway are missing the boat.

I have been associated with this company off and on since 1976.  Every time I get out it is always the same reason:  The prices are too high and unsaleable.  I only got back in this time because Orin Woodward and the Team philosophy made more since that the Amway Philosophy.  I am so happy that the Team exposed the selfishness of Quixtar/Alticore and the new Amway.

The present company policies are a disgrace to Rich and Jay.  

The best way to save the company is to apologize to the IBOs, to Orin, Chris and the Team.

Put the Team at the Helm and watch the company grow under the Amway Name.

The mere name of Amway turns people off because the company has a bad reputation because of its high priced products.

You can't beat the team. So you may as well join up with them before it's too late.

Shirley Saunders said:
August 15, 2007 11:42 PM | #

Please send this comment to the leaders of the company.

The team is growing rapidly because the organization has credibility and is concerned about IBOs.  

Amway/Quixtar /Alticore has no credibility especially among people who have been amway distributors before.  The wisest thing to do is to join in with Orin and Chris under a new paradigm using the Team program.  That is the only way you can even begin to use the Amway name.  As it stands now, people will run from Amway and Quixtar.  But they are running to the Team. You need to ask yourselves Why?

Chris and Terry with the teams help will help restore honor to the company Rich and Jay built many years ago.  

I would hate for you guys to go out of business over this.  I also would hate for any new company formed by the team to compete with employees of Amway/Quixtar or Alticore.

Swallow your pride, Call Chris and apologize. He is a very forgiving and determined leader.  

Shirley Saunders said:
August 15, 2007 11:52 PM | #

I will comments every time I get the chance.

Someone has to talk some sense into you guys.

It is distructive to the company that Rich and Jay built for the descendents to continue the downward spiral.  

The only reason I bought the expensive products was to show support and loyalty to the Team.  Despite their quality, I was embarassed to recommend the the products to anyone who wasn't making a over 80 thousand dollars a year.  But even these persons, laughed after looking at the prices.  Its rediculous.

I tried to demonstrate to some financially challenged new IBO how to sell the products.  Needless to say, I couldn't sell ONE item.  This was an embarrassment.

I read the legal brief and am very pleased that Orin and Chris exposed the company policy that victimized me each time I rejoined the organization, hoping that things had changed.  

Like everyone else, I only bought enough to meet requirements. The few times that I bought more than this, I regretted it.  Because I was just being bilked with the high prices.  

CALL Orinn and apologize.  Join with the TEam.

Get your lawyers together and fix the regulatory issues. But don't think for one minute that experienced IBOS will go back to the antiquated Quixtar/Amway plan.  

As for the tools.  I read the books and listen to the tapes because they are motivational, just like the tapes amway produced in 1976  "The Majic of Thinking Big."  The only difference is the tools are coming from the TEam.  

Do you expect us to purchase our books and tapes from someone elses business?  

Shirley Saunders said:
August 15, 2007 11:53 PM | #

I am tired.

I am  disappointed with Amway, Quixtar and Alticore.  

Despite my ramblings, I don't think you guys are listening.  I feel sorry for all the good employees that you have. They will suffer because of the companies selfishness.  

JMartin said:
August 16, 2007 2:22 AM | #

  I'm on my way to work and I hear the Towers have been attacked... My response to others is that the perpetrators don't know America's resolve.

  I receive a call from my upline mentor that Team has announced litigation processes after attempted communication failures with Quixtar (Amway Corp was not the problem.)... And I am reminded of "The Patriot" -- of a father who did not want to get involved but was drawn into the controversy and battle.

  We are all called to become aware of Truths and own them... herein lies the problem -- "becoming," as one journeys through life, few of us take responsibility of past events and say the buck stops here - I am responsible and from this day forward will take steps to put right the wrongs that I've become aware of.  Great men are born of courage and discomfort... So lie in the comfort of status quo, when the tide goes out, you won't be noticed as not having existed.

Clark said:
August 16, 2007 5:49 AM | #

MAB,

Thanks for the info. I have completed the steps that you have suggested and thats why I am fustrated.  The Quixtar rep I called said that they couldnt help with that info and they would transfer me to the rep that could. I found out that more than likely I will not get a return call because I am not a Dia. or Plat. This info was directly from the Quixtar 1800 # rep. My upline for some reason wont answer his phone.

Its just hard for me grasp since Quixtar set me up with the Team and now that the Team is in this situation they have not taken the time to respond, to me atleast.

It is discouraging to people like me to continue since you dont know what to tell new prospects about the Team or my up line. All of my connections are starting to loose intrest and time is important. Soon I will loose intrest also. Drama brings everyone down.

Thanks

kjteam said:
August 16, 2007 9:00 AM | #

I noticed in the other blogs that there is a mention of the Federal Trade Commission and other Federal agencies.  Can you please quote me the Federal Statue in which you are referring when stating answers about "stacking".  When you mention the FTC and others you are using scare tactics that most people take on face value.  My experience in the past with Labor/Management negotiations is to read it for myself.  

The other question I have on Stacking is how does

"Market America" who builds this way (2 legs straight down, and have been around since the early 80s, and started by:  you guessed it, an x-Amway diamond) get away with it Statutorily. (no I am not considering or have ever considered joining "Market America".) I know this because they are a competitor in this area and I had to be able to explain the difference to prospects.  The point is that I don't believe that on the federal or state level that there is a problem.

I do believe that Quixtar is against stacking purely because of  a loss of profit. It just makes sense.  

Let's say you build straight down, and you break 25 silvers that benefit from a leader who knows how to build, then you (quixtar) have to bay out 25 bonuses that you would not normally have had to pay out. It's about your profit not law.

As far as your answer on products.  Get a grip.  Wal-Mart did not become the largest company in the world because of the high end concern about products.  Oh but Wal-Mart didn't have a "captive" Audience, they actually had to compete.  

Ray said:
August 16, 2007 12:19 PM | #

Hi kjteam.

It's hard to explain here, but Q pays 25% plus 4% leadership bonus plus 1% depth bonus (plus a few other upper level depth bonuses) to some upline on every BV dollar sold.  It doesn't matter how the BV is structured.  Q only needs to pay it once--even if there are 25 silvers down a leg.

Piet Strydom said:
August 16, 2007 1:14 PM | #

To Shirley Saunders: If you are not interested in the products, why did you join an MLM in the first place? When you saw the products were not for you, why did you keep on?

Have you looked at the blogs to see how many people actually do retail the product? It works out to around USD40 million for the US market. Not bad I would say.

If TEAM properly explained the business to you, how can you say "I bought only enough to meet requirements". Anybody that does the minimum in his business will fail. Anybody that runs a business promoting the use of products, who doesn't believe in those products, will fail.

There is no rocket science in that, only common sense. Find a supplier with products that you can believe in, and use them. But don't expect from Quixtar to let you take with you the distribution channel that THEY helped you to set up.

Don't be so naive!!!

Piet Strydom said:
August 16, 2007 1:29 PM | #

To KJteam: It seems that TEAM did not explain the business plan to you very nicely. A/Q does not pay out more, the deeper a team goes. They pay out a certain percentage of every sale. How that amount is split up however, is determined by the structure in the team.

And that is where A/Q's problem with stacking comes in - it is a method that is extremely unprofitable for new IBO's. Even for people beyond platinum, if they are struggling to get their additional legs done. And TEAM has been using an overemphasis on BSM, to supplement the income of the people at platinum level.

So lower IBO's received a double whammy - they are put into a structure that is inherently unprofitable, and then they are required to spend on the BSM as well. (I am very much pro BSM, but as part of a properly balanced, budgeted, profitable business.)

So, it is not about Quixtar's own profitability, it is about their concern for the profitability for the newest IBO's. And read the Adatudes blog, you will see that the trend is consistently: new IBO profitability, First circle, etc, etc.

Secondly, the combination of stacking andd OVERemphasis on tools, make the business vulnerable for attack from authorities that it is a pyramid scheme. Another reason why Amway/Quixtar had to act.

Thirdly, if you marketing department decides to sell products from another company, surely you need to defend yourself against that? Which is why when Woodward et al announced their intention to start a rival MLM, their IBO registrations were terminated.

And lastly product. As I said to Shirley, if you don't like the Quixtar products, why did you join? Not all products are commodities. TEAM's three C's only work in an environment where the products are commodities. Quixtar's products are not commodities, they are premium quality, market leading products in each category that they compete in.

And Walmart is not one of those categories....

T Cotta said:
August 16, 2007 5:22 PM | #

Piet, you mentioned BSMs.  I am trying to find out if there are some independent Business Support Materials that are authorized by Quixtar.  One of the claims is that TEAM used unauthorized material.. Just wondering.  There's a really good blog called "The Real Quixtar Blog" on this site too.  Thanks!!

GirlPower said:
August 16, 2007 5:29 PM | #

Wow. Is it just me or do some of the TEAM-followers seem a bit cult-like? Drink the purple Kool-Aid already and get over yourselves.

You were taught to do the business INCORRECTLY by greedy men who charged you to go to thier functions and to listen to them drone on cassette. Thier books helped change your lives? Let me guess: you also say the same about Oprah & Dr. Phil, right?

The TEAM cult-leaders were not dismissed because they wanted Q to lower prices. They were stacking. Stacking is an ILLEGAL practice. What part of that confuses you?

rosendo meza said:
August 16, 2007 7:14 PM | #

So what happens now ? To all of us TEAM members what is the proper procedure!...

doug said:
August 16, 2007 9:29 PM | #

The team has taught me more in the last 8 months, than Quixtar and Dexter had the previous 3 years.  They are the future of MLM.  I wiil continue BY MY OWN CHOICE!! to listen to any and all bsm they recommend.  When I register new IBO's I will continue to offer them a choice on any of these fine materials.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN TOLD "THEY MUST DO SOMETHING" We all have choice's we choose what we decide. Not all ibo's get on system, it is a choice.  

Fernando Lopez said:
August 16, 2007 9:38 PM | #

To girlpower, Billy Florence had been teaching "stacking" for years in functions even to other organizations that weren't part of Team. I remember seen him upstage showing MDE Latino that process. Nobody told us it was illegal or "wrong". Mr. Florence's idea made since because it gave security for a continual growth. I beleive it will be harder to do bussiness with Q, but time will tell. Besides did you know that Alticor purchase Gurwitch Products company in July of '06. Gurwitch markets the Laura Mercier makeup line here in the USA at Nieman Marcus and Saks. Quixtar is competing with us the IBOs, who are trying to sell Artistry and NAO. Can you believe that! I heard great stuff about the TEAM leaders, but I can't say the same thing about Quixtar/Amway current owners. I truly stand behing Chris Brady when he said "I owe these people the business I told them they could achieve when I brought them in and that is not possible with the new organizational changes."

No doubt a lot of people are dissapointed with the organization.

Quixtar management: The Team was formed by some of the most sucessful people in Quixtar/Amway. They know better than any one of us (even you Quixtar management) how to develop a sucessfull business with Quixtar. How can you'll train us, if you'll have never even shown the plan. Do you have any idea how many plans "ex-Double Diamond" Randy had to give to qualified Diamond. The number is on the hundreds for sure. These people worked hard to gain what they have.

Are these peple greedy? Of course not, they are good people who taught what they learn doing this bussiness. They are an example of courage and integrity by standing for what they believe is right.

I did not join the bussiness because of the products or the prices. I joined the bussiness for one sole reason: the leadership. I stopped buying the products because the price was too high and I couldn't even sell a Glister toothpaste. But I still buy some of the materials my organization sells. I quit buying since January, but if Quixtar would lower its prices, I would gladly buy from them again. But, if Quixtar didn't hear Mr. Woodward and Team, I'm sure they won't hear me. My prayer is for all those IBOs out there who want to develop a sucessfull legitimate bussiness, they probably will struggle even more.  know.

Luskey Green said:
August 16, 2007 10:38 PM | #

First of all, stacking is not illegal when the sponsor and the IBO agree to the positioning. Relationship between the Sponsor and the new IBO is nice but not necessary. After the first year in the business my sponsor quit and had no relationship at all with my new upline 'sponsor' and also I had a new Platinum I'd still have never met. The rules say the Platinum has the responsibility to support me and my business. Really, how can he? My example is why a system is soooooo necessary. Amway and Quixtar has left creating systems to successful IBOs.

These system became a profit center for these successfu business men. So profitable and so promising that abuses were certain to take place. I have my own story of abuse but will not share it here.

From all that I can see these past few days, Q has begun to take steps that will ultimately hurt the BSM industry while taking on more of the responsibility to training new IBOs. I for one welcome anything that curtails abuses because it is the abuses that feed the negative images that are still alive and well in our communities.

If Q develops it own training system, sets a fair cost structure, and creates a competitive alternative to current BSMs, I believe it will go a long way to correcting abuses and restoring Q's image in the marketplace.

Thanks for the progress you are making Q.

GRATIFYING MEDIA said:
August 17, 2007 2:19 AM | #

Editor's Note:  I was up late, wasn't I? I felt compelled to monitor the conversation. This is a landmark time in our business and there are many ways in which we can fail. I don't think the author at the media blog intended to alienate IBOs within the group; the sentiment was more directed to the leaders whose names have become synonymous with the Team name.  RL

Hey Robin,

All of us who show the plan using the TEAM name are synonymous with it to the people who we have presented this business to. So, your response didn't alienate some IBOs associated with TEAM - it alienated all of us!

However, I don't have to really tell you that I suppose, since the truth is that you know it should have never been posted to start with. At minimum it showed lack of good taste and extreme non-professionalism. If you had not already defended it so rigorously throughout this blog, I would say a formal apology was due to all of us who have been building this business LEGALLY and SUCCESSFULLY. At this point though, I think it is clear that by that defense, apologies will not be soon in coming.

I am sorry for you, however, that you must be extremely stressed at the moment with all this going on. This is one less blogger you will have to monitor, however, as I will instead go back to taking in a more GRATIFYING MEDIA that is more profitable for myself, my family, and my business.

There is a lot to pray about.

kjteam said:
August 17, 2007 8:12 AM | #

To Ray:   Thanks, but I do understand the compensation, probably better then you.  Did you know that Silvers get a 250.00 bonus.  Ok so lets do some math.  If Orrin has nine legs over 7500 as he is an EDC..  That means every time they had new IBO’s  on the bottom of the leg, then the next couple of people go 7500 or silver, let’s say that happens 20 times a year in each of his nine legs, (by the way, these numbers are way low) but here we go, 20 x 250.00 = 5,0000.00 x 9 legs =45,0000, ok now lets take Orrin’s 5 diamonds 20 x 250.00 = 5,0000 x 6 legs = 30,000.00 x 5 = 150,000.00 + 45,000.00 = 195,000.00 dollars in silver bonus money that is not normally paid out, as when you go in width you don’t break 1 silver a year let alone 20.  Now lets take what Orrin is doing an add other organizations such as: Florence, Hagen, Harties, Chuck G., and many other diamonds that have adopted the Woodward system.  I think you get the point.  

To Piet Strydom: I think you need to get a life.  You are all over these blogs with your vomit..  Did you show the plan last night?  I did.  You don’t own the corner market on truth.  I did not get in this business for “product” I got in this business to pursue my dream.  Are you a dream Steeler?  Do you have to like coffee to own a coffee shop, or can a man own a women’s shoe store, your persistence in the product baffles me.  Are you an IBO, please be transparent and tell us all about how successful you are. What’s your pin level, how much width do you have, if width is such a wonderful way to build.  How many levels deep are you?   Come on be transparent, other wise you’re a fake taking a power trip with a computer.  

Luskey Green said:
August 17, 2007 11:42 AM | #

Let's compare the issues. The first issue focuses upon how to develop the business.

Quxitar's paradigm focuses on products being sold and consumed by the IBO AND sponsors trained to do the same by a balance of building width and depth. The focus is on products.

The TEAM's paradigm focuses on leadership by driving depth through one LOS (Line of sponsorship). When the IBO is trained and can begin to function alone by driving depth, he/she will start his/her second LOS. As the 2nd LOS grows deeper, leaders duplicate their mentors. Leadership duplication can be explosive in new IBO growth and in retention of those IBOs. Selling products is not emphasized at all, consuming products is.  Product volume is secondary - leadership development is primary.

Thus, the major issue is focused upon how to develop a successful business: Lead with products vs Become a successful leader.

The second issue is on how to make Quixtar a better opportunity.

The TEAMs ideas focus on product pricing. Much more product volume can be created through consumption (not sales) if the inflated prices are reduced. The TEAM leadership has almost begged to have the prices lowered, but up to now have cried upon deaf ears.

Quixtar, on the other hand, have developed strategies and policies to re-inforce the basic priciple upon which AMWAY had in the beginning. Consume products, retail product and sponsor others to do the same. AMWAY/Quixtar cannot legally be a whole-buying club and satisfy FTC requirements. Stacking, though legal if done correctly, coupled with ONLY consumption by a majority of IBOs places the WHOLE Quixtar opportunity at risk. Quixtar has remedied this potential risk.

All new IBOs will to exposed to the Quixtar way of building the business. They will be told the connection between Quixtar and AMWAY and eventually the Quixtar name will be replaced by AMWAY. Moreover, illegal stacking will now also become fraud. Both the IBO and their sponsor must sign the IBO registration form establishing the consent for positioning a new IBO in the sponsor's LOS. If the form is signed by someone other than the sponsor, fraud is committed.

Thus, Quixtar made it much more difficult to stack illegally and made hiding 'AMWAY' from the new IBOs impossible.

The TEAMs reaction, bottom line, was a request to leave Quixtar with the TEAM entact and use or create a new vendor for their products. They simply cannot build the business their way under these new Quixtar strategies and policies.

The fight is on. On legal grounds, I believe Quixtar is right. On practical grounds, with the tremendous growth TEAM has brought to Quixtar, Quixtar needs to be more accomadating. Quixtar can show and support both business models legally; both models produce results.

I hope this helps. Thank you.

Beryl Nichols said:
August 17, 2007 3:17 PM | #

Thanks Luskey for your spot-on explanation.  Simple isn't it?  Personally, I would never want people in my LOS without meeting them first.  And I side with Quixtar on the pricing issue.  What do you have by focusing on the CHEAP?  Problems, one after the other!  But most importantly it has to be honest and legal.  TEAM has a right to do it their way.  Of course they have to leave Quixtar to do so.  Quixtar has rules that they must follow and they refuse to do so.

I think it strange that they had to be terminated.  They pushed to the limit as if they didn't have to legally follow the rules. Wrong NEVER becomes RIGHT no matter how long you persist.  Thanks for you comments.

Fernando Lopez said:
August 17, 2007 3:56 PM | #

Just a reminder kjteam, what you are asking Piet Strydom to do is illegal in quixtar, it's call Line Cross Over. This is one more way quixtar makes sure we all, including the diamonds, keep our mouth shut up. We cannot give that type of information to other IBOs. They are certainly good in making rules, just look at TEAM, they can't even defend themselves and give their side of the story. They already have two restrain orders. What is Quixtar/Amway so afraid of? Sooner or later TEAM will talk and we all will know the complete true.  

The Real Quixtar Blog said:
August 17, 2007 4:32 PM | #

The past few days have been tumultuous for Quixtar. You just need to check out the news release about

kjteam said:
August 17, 2007 6:21 PM | #

Thanks Fernando.  I was just looking for Piet Strydom to establish his/her  credibility.  Building depth has been the best thing that has happened us in the last 5 years in this buisiness.  The first 3 years I built width and got nowhere.  find and repace, find and replace.  We adopt Team Staragey and 18 months later I'm a platnium.  We totally focus on helping the new person at the bottom of the team.  How can you do that if your in find and replace mode all the time.  Like I said earlyier. Alticor enjoys the failure rate as it is more profit for them.  

One more point to Ray and people who think like him.  If you just bring someone on that just wants to shop and enjoy the products and convience in the find and replace mode they will always pay full price.  In building depth and place them where depth will be built below they will in time earn 25% back on their products and get the silver bonus vs. 3% forever.  Don't tell me that's not a profit loss for "Q"  or that this issue is not about profit.  

Pricing:  As for myself, I don't really care about the price of products.  It's when I sit down with a young couple with a child who are making minimum wage and they have hope in their eyes until they look at the prices and just cannot justify  the expenture.  This happens at the other end to, when you sit down with someone on social security and give you the same look as they cannot justify the money.  You tell me, is it about us or them?

Paul Meyers said:
August 18, 2007 6:13 PM | #

I joined Amway in 1992 and did my utmost to build a business I stayed when it became Quixtar. I always had great regard for the company, Always thought and said that the company was the best corporation I dealt with as a customer. I am very disturbed and upset by what is going on now. I am (or was???) in Billy Florence's down line. When we joined Team I was very excited by the concept - one system - join forces. I had a very small business before Team. My business has dramatically increased since Team. In a few short months it did far more that years in the prior system. I am normally a very positive person and look for the best in things. As high a regard that I have had for Quixtar, I now have the feeling that Quixtar is afraid of competition. I have never been told that the Team's tool system is required. I have never told my prospects that it is required. I have always heard it said at a Team meeting that the system is optional. I always tell prospects that the only thing required is the Quixtar sign up fee. The Team's registration packet has the BSMA form that clearly states these things. I have been excited to see other diamond organization join Team as a conformation to my thought that Team is the greatest change that I have seen in the Quixtar business. I really do have the feeling that Quixtar is worried about too much power in the Team organization. Don't they realize that this power is shared with Quixtar? It certainly has caused my business to grow which has increased Quixtar's profits. I will say that since joining Amway and then Quixtar, I would never have had any business at all if it weren't for first Bill Florence's system and then Team's. I am a reserved loner and not comfortable around people. Our tool system has had a dramatic impact on my life. I now enjoy talking to people. I have never seen this kind of support from Quixtar. I always said that IBO's and Quixtar make a great team. Quixtar is great with products, sponsoring countries and companies. We are great with sponsoring people. How can a concept be so simple and great. I always tell people this. My objective response to this is distrust with what is going on at the corporate level. The charges against Team do not seem in line with my observation. We would have no business if it weren't for Quixtar's great products and Quixtar would have no business is it weren't for IBO's and the tool support system. I have not seen that kind of tool support system from Quixtar. That is NOT a negative. Do what each of us does best. For one side to attack the other side for being too good is to shoot oneself in the foot.

Bridgett said:
August 19, 2007 4:31 AM | #

kjteam on August 17, 2007 8:12 AM said "Silvers get a $250 bonus check."

Are you crazy? A Silver WITH PROPER WIDTH makes between $2,000 and $4,000 a month.

Please, read the first few pages of the Business Reference Guide: https://www.quixtar.com/documents/iwov/vis/010-en/pdf/LA1015.pdf

to know how money is made, before you post another comment.

Bridgett said:
August 19, 2007 4:32 AM | #

kjteam on August 17, 2007 6:21 PM said "In building depth and place them where depth will be built below they will in time earn 25% back on their products and get the silver bonus vs. 3% forever.  Don't tell me that's not a profit loss for "Q"  or that this issue is not about profit.

SOMEONE is getting the 25%. The Corp does not keep it. The Platinum upline, even if he/she's 100 people upline, gets the 25% minus whatever bonus bracket his/her legS are at.

Again, please read the first few pages of the Business Reference Guide to see how the money is made.

It is horrifying that we have IBOs defending an organization that teaches IBOs how to be the LEAST profitable.

Al said:
August 19, 2007 8:17 AM | #

Here's the truth: http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24.  Please copy and paste this link into your web browser and read it.  It's quite lengthy, but it gets to the bottom of what is happening.  

Editor's Note: I will post it this time (again) but will not be posting this link for every person who posts this into comments. Also, we will not post full transcripts of what appears on that site (especially when there is no additional comment). -- RL

Tex said:
August 19, 2007 4:13 PM | #

kjteam,

Where is it stated Silvers get $250? I assume this is a one time bonus, which isn't a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.

Fernando Lopez,

Do you mean cross-lining? Can you show me what rule has been violated?

Corp (please respond),

I understand why you got rid of case pricing, it wasn't being used enough. However, I wish you didn't get rid of the case ordering, but as I suggested previously, had lowered the prices to make case orders more attractive. Big mistake, in my opinion, if you are trying to lower prices. This amounts to a price increase for me.

Your recent announcement says the PV/BV ratios and most of the prices are being maintained for next year, but is the PV/BV LEVEL also being maintained, increased, or decreased?

I understand the shipping prices, gas prices have gone way up.

If one of my IBO's doesn't follow the rules, I as a Platinum shouldn't be punished for their action. In the case of stacking, if I trained them properly how to stack properly, and they go off and do it incorrectly, I shouldn't be punished, they should. You have swung the pendulum way too far in the other direction.

I am repeating these comments on the IBOAI blog for their information and feedback.

JB said:
August 19, 2007 6:23 PM | #

I have been reading both sides and third party views about this debacle in the Quixtar and Team controversy.  I must say that since joining a Quixtar affiliated business in Fall 2002, our business has grown.  However, we became TEAM affiliated in the past couple months.  The enthusiasm in our business has increased tremendously.  Also, the list of diamond IBOs affiliating with TEAM was a list of speakers that we have heard from the beginning, many of which were featured on such Yager product as Diamond Rhapsodies, Diamond Fundamentals, and other training material.  The ongoing controversy unfortunatley, will inevitably lead to a loss of faith in the Quixtar/Amway business.  

It seems to me that the the heavy emphasis on "posturing" approaches to sales and interactions has set the tone for this "posturing" apparent from the two parties of Quixtar and TEAM.   As business professionals, we should not be in the business of pressuring or begging, which is the essence of appropriate "posture".  Unfortunately, "posture" has become the excuse that high pressure salespeople and choleric or D personalities use to maintain less savory personal interaction styles.  This has been another blot on the Quixtar/Amway business.  Now, we have two sides that have postured us to the brink of a dilemma.  

JAV said:
August 19, 2007 6:34 PM | #

Well TEX obviously if you have taken the time and effort to teach your IBOs the right way to do things then they will never go off and do it incorrectly because they will be duplicating their upline.  Obviously the issue of stacking came from the biggest pin upline so everbody felt it was the right thing to do.  That is why everybody is so quick to defend their ever so full of "integrity" upline big pins. Quixtar will always look like the bad guy just because they did what was right.  They protected all of us from the FTC coming down on them just because 15 guys didn't want to comply with the rules.  

And as far as everybody trying to justify them in their actions just because they were trying to lower prices only means you truly don't understand why you are in this business.  It is to make money not save a couple bucks.  If you want to do that keep shopping at wal-mart.  

In the end it was great growth that TEAM brought to Quixtar but what was so hard for them to just comply with the rules.  They should have learned on trying to compete with Quixtar when Bo Short tried to start his own company and failed.

kjteam said:
August 19, 2007 9:52 PM | #

Bridgett,Bridgett,Bridgett,:  [edited to remove personal insult]  

The 250.00 is a one time bonus for silvers in which I recived this year, a long with the over 2,000.00 in payout, as I am in the six month of Platnium qulificiation. (It's August)  And it was an example of depth building.  I have expeirenced the 9-4-2 method for 3 years, you can have it. take it, build with it, love it,  But don't make me have it.  My mother who is below me in depth has not made a phone call, not a contact, just buys from the corp (for my sake) I should add, and not because of anything else, but she's has consistantly gone up the PV scale as I build in depth down the leg, which means she get's a better and better deal off the prouducts, and so does all the other non-builders in that line of sponsership. [edit]

Tex:  I know this is probably a waste of time, but here it goes.  I have a sister cross line team who is breaking new silvers every month.  

If they have  75 people in depth doing 100 pv = 7500, then every time they add another prospect who does anther 100pv then another person in the line of sponsership goes Silver.  Even if that's 2 people a month x 12 months is 24.  In my math above I use the number 20, please review.  If my math is wrong please let me know.  Thanks.

gonzalo said:
August 19, 2007 10:28 PM | #

I want to know who will take over TEAM & who keeps all of the down lines, and all that money.

Bridgett said:
August 20, 2007 3:04 AM | #

kjteam, kjteam, kjteam,

[edit; removed comment regarding moderation of personal attack]

9-4-2, 6-3, 52-12-18, hike, blah, blah.

The "gimmick" that it appears you do, is that you are stacking non-builders (customers for all intents and purposes), and selling them on the idea that they not only get products at IBO cost, BUT, they will get an additional 25% back on their personal use after a little bit of time, as you put 75 100PVers in their leg.

And you, as the Platinum, reap ALL the bonus money on that pass-up volume, because no one in that leg is entitled to ANY of the bonus money, because they have no width (side volume) and they do not fulfill the 50 PV retail rule, which would entitle them to bonus money on their downline volume.

By the way, is the $250 Silver bonus you are referring to a Quixtar bonus or a TEAM/BSM bonus?

kjteam said:
August 20, 2007 10:26 AM | #

To Bridget:  I apologize for any insults that I have made towards you.  I get caught up in the heat of argument sometimes.  My argument comes from experience of 5 years of being in the houses and of building both ways.  I think your argument comes from theory.  Either way, I just ask you to respect the way that I choose to build and I'll respect the way you choose to build, and remember to: Have fun, make money, and make a difference.

Piet Strydom said:
August 20, 2007 12:30 PM | #

To kjteam: I hadn't shown the plan the previous night like you did, but I have personally sponsored 3 people in the last three weeks.

I hammer on products, because that is what I get paid for: to move product! And I firmly believe in the products, and I firmly believe in the quality of the products.

And yes, our BSM also makes use of a depth model, but if you read my post, you will see that I have it against overemphasis of tools, and overemphasis of depth. That approach has caused a lot of hardship for a lot of people, just have a look around the internet. It is no use TEAM has spectacular short-term success, and they sour the whole environment for themselves and everybody else.

And going for a million is great, the BSG that I am part of has done that a number of years ago already. So it has been done, and can be done again.

Bridgett said:
August 20, 2007 1:38 PM | #

kjteam,

Apology accepted. My comments are not based on theory. Have shown hundreds of plans, sponsored dozens of people, helped build a Q-12 Platinum leg which has qualified for four years straight.

Following the way you choose to build, I could get 450 customers (at 100 PV), sign them up as IBOs, stack them down six legs, and be a Diamond.

Quixtar/Amway's rules state that you cannot manipulate the placement of IBOs in order to create bonuses for yourself. What you are doing could be considered using people to get what you want, rather than helping people get what they want.

I guess, simply, it's not a matter of "choice". It's a matter of following the rules or not following the rules.

And when you sign your contract with the Corp., you are agreeing to follow the rules.

*4.25. IBO Plan Manipulation: No IBO shall manipulate the IBO Plan or sales volume, in any way which results in the payment of bonuses or other awards and recognition that have not been earned in accordance with the terms of the IBO Plan and/or the Business Reference Guide.

kjteam said:
August 20, 2007 1:42 PM | #

To Piet Strydom:  Those 3 people, did you put them in width. Then you did so for the sole purpose of your profit not theirs.   If you did then here's what you'll do.   You will work with the one who creates the most momentum and let the others die out.  Driving depth that way the whole way down.  then when you get about 3 to 6 in depth and can't go anymore, then you'll sponser 3 more, letting the other leg die out and repeat and repeat until you quit.  

I predict that when you fail at your many attempts at the way your building this business, and your probably not building it, it is probably your upline builidng it.  

Then you'll start your own negative blog against "q" or whoever on how this business doen't work.  

I read other repsonses to you from other team associates, on other blogs and you still don't get it.  

And the million you mention, is a Million attending a seminar on the same day, and that has never been done.

so, good luck to you and I truly do wish you sucess in your product business.  

Beryl Nichols said:
August 20, 2007 4:52 PM | #

I have an idea that will bring all this "discussion" to an abrupt halt!  Go the leadership of TEAM and ask them why they don't put their money where their mouth is and PURCHASE Quixtar and do business their way!

In Texas we say "Put Up or SHUT UP!" That would be obsurd for them to do this, because they don't really believe themselves.  Watch the knashing of teeth!

Mike Joyal said:
August 20, 2007 10:16 PM | #

Maybe you could add a spell check feature?

Tex said:
August 20, 2007 11:59 PM | #

JB,

Ever heard the tape "It's Called Posture", by Billy Florence?

Al,

That's not the whole story. Ron hasn't answered the question how much money is made on tools for Platinums and above.

JAV,

There is no way I can guarantee every IBO in my group will follow the rules. We are all adults, and if I can prove I have properly trained, or at least made every reasonable effort to train the IBO, there should be NO punishment given to me. The corp would be treading on very thin ice if they attempted to punish me in this instance. This is unreasonable and excessive.

kjteam,

You still haven't answered the queston where the $250 comes from. Even if it comes from Quixtar and you produce one or two new Silvers every month, it is a drop in the bucket compared to the product volume being produced. The charge against TEAM is INAPPROPRIATE stacking, not stacking. Get your facts straight and answer questions when asked.  

You claim to respect how others build their businesses, then turn around a couple hours later and slam Piet when he sponsors in width? According to m discussions with a Quixtar sales manager, their data suggests the overall retention rate is better for the depth model in the first year or two, then the width model overtakes and has better overall retention. Not by a lot, but it is a measurable difference. Have you seen all the TEAM tools for sale on the internet? Do you think these are happy campers?

Your distain for a product business virtually proves you are after the tool dollars, to heck with the Quixtar pennies (relatively speaking). You would have made a great tool pusher, too bad you're late to the party.

Where's Dandy Don when you need him? "...turn out the lights,..the party's over...."

gonzalo,

I think the remaining upline gets together to determine which system(s) they will join.  As for the Quixtar side, the company usually assigns a "dummy" IBO to prevent the upline from going wider and qualifying for a higher pin.

Bridgett,

If you build depth only, there is no additional money that flows to the Platinum. In other words, these IBO's don't lose anything by NOT retailing.  They also don't make much, only a discount on what they buy according to the volume at and below their PV level.

Bridgett said:
August 21, 2007 11:42 AM | #

Hi Tex,

If someone doesn't fulfill the "Customer Volume Requirement" (CVR) then their bonus money, other than from their own personal use, goes straight to the Platinum.

The Customer Volume Requirement is refered to in the bottom corner of page A-2 of the Bus Ref Guide, and defined  in the Glossary on page E-2. It's:

a) 10 different customers

b) 50 PV in customer volume

or

c) $100 in customer volume

If I have one leg, nine deep, and everyone (including myself) does 100PV, that's a total of 1,000 PV. I would get 12% back on my personal use, but I am not entitled to any bonus money produced by my downline if I don't fulfill the CVR.

The person right below me is running 900PV and would be entitled (if they fulfill the CVR) to a 6% bonus on that 900 PV, but I won't make the differential (12% - 6%) on that 900 PV unless I fulfill the CVR requirement. That differential $$ goes to straight to the Platinum.

It doesn't flow, like I said. It goes straight to them, even if there is someone in between me and the Platinum fulfilling their CVR.

And if you have an entire leg, with not one person fulfilling the CVR, then all that bonus money goes to the Platinum.

I understand, if an LOA doesn't teach this, or if someone doesn't study the Bus Ref Guide, how someone could miss this rule. The definition is buried in the Glossary.

Cheflaynee said:
August 21, 2007 12:59 PM | #

My husband and I have both done Amway independently (before we met), together after we married, and were in Quixtar after the name change in 1999.The first time my husband built the 6-4-2 with moderate success and in the 90’s we built it together with no success in sponsoring anyone. This in spite of being on BWW’s system, attending Tuesday SLM’s and even going to a Britt School one weekend.

Last August we signed on with the TEAM Powered by Quixtar and for the first time using Team Approach and segmented lists, we managed to build it.  We have met Orrin and Billy Florence and found them to be very wise and sincerely interested in our business success.  We have never heard either one of them say a negative word about the company.  We have never experienced the growth and development both personally and in business as we have with the TEAM.

Changing the name back to Amway is not the thing to do.  We had trouble sponsoring people once they saw or heard the name, making it very difficult to build the business.  The products are great but very over priced, and when the price is right the shipping costs make even the best price uninviting.  The best thing to do is keep the great products, lower the prices and build business like the Team does.  The tools are not mandatory.  We have never experienced a more positive environment than when we are with our Team family, what a refreshing change!  Those of you that have never tried making a success of your business under both methods of sponsoring have no legitimate right to smear the Team's name.  Is it possible that the corporation is jealous of the fact that someone else found a better way to market their business opportunity?  Or that the TEAM has had so much success?  

My husband has two books by the computer. “The Winner’s Circle” and “The Possible Dream,” both written by Charles Paul Conn, that described success of people we respect very much and who showed the Amway business works. Orrin Woodward gave us a system that showed us how to make Quixtar work for us. Now Quixtar/Amway has written a new chapter in our story – The Company That Stole Our Dream.

As for us, we will follow the TEAM

Cheflaynee

Piet Strydom said:
August 21, 2007 1:36 PM | #

I must be doing something right, because I am getting hammered from both sides. Tex and kjteam, if you read my previous post(s) you will see I said that we also follow a depth approach, but do not OVEREMPHASISE that. Nor do we overemphasise tools. We believe in a balanced business, but always remember that Q/A pays for product moved, nothing else.

Tex - If you build depth only, the 4% only stops at the first person with the required side volume. When nobody starts their second legs, it can travel a long way up the leg....

Piet Strydom said:
August 21, 2007 1:38 PM | #

To Gonzalo: The IBO's downline from the people that were terminated, will simply be connected to the "terminatee's" upline, same as if somebody doesn't renew.

Piet Strydom said:
August 21, 2007 1:42 PM | #

Tex, I am not familiar with the Quixtar bonuses, but even if Quixtar pays a $250 bonus, I am very certain it will not go to silver sponsors, only to silver producers.

In our market a silver sponsor is somebody that has sponsored somebody that became a silver producer. A silver producer is somebody that not only reached the top of the bonus scale, but also has the required side volume.

To me it is a really fundamental portion of the compensation plan - Q/A needs to identify the IBO's that are actually getting something done, and not just reach pin levels because of their downline's efforts.

GoGetter said:
August 21, 2007 5:18 PM | #

Here is what some of us who are not a part of TEAM sees at the forefront. (With these issues, being a part of TEAM or not is irrelevant)

The decision back to Amway without the IBOAI being present or the views of IBOs in the field being taken into consideration, the pricing issue on the products, a valid and warranted concern ignored by the corporation, the corporation working with and approving Team’s approach to building depth prior to this situation and now disapproving Team’s approach, and the increasing control of the corporation over the IBOs with these and other issues.

It appears that things are moving further in the direction of a dictatorship as though the IBO were an employee. Maybe the second generation DeVos & VanAndel families actually want to eliminate all IBOs both by their resigning or being terminated, operate as a manufacturing-marketing-distribution company, and pocket the money from all bonuses & incentives once paid to IBOs.

The Distributors of Amway have “always” had a voice that was listened to and heard by Rich DeVos and Jay VanAndel. The answer to all of this is for the second generation DeVos’s & VanAndel’s to keep the same values, principles, and care for the IBO as their fathers Rich & Jay did for all those years.

LisBette said:
August 21, 2007 6:04 PM | #

Has anyone read Chuck Goetschel's comments?

Tex said:
August 21, 2007 6:49 PM | #

Bridgett,

You still don't understand. In the depth model, ALL the bonus money is paid out in the form of a percent off your own purchases/customer sales, based on your total PV/BV level. There is no extra money "left over" to go upline, except for the 4% money for the upline Platinum. I wish I could draw out the numbers for you, it is hard to explain in a text only format.

Do the math. Put 100 PV for a 10 deep model, pay them all, and compare to a 10 wide model. Only in the 10 wide model is there ANY incentive to retail in order to earn downline volume bonus. In the 10 deep model, there is incentive to earn customer retail profit and PV/BV volume bonus.

JB said:
August 22, 2007 1:34 AM | #

Tex,

Thank you for your response to my comment about "posture".  I did listen to the "It's called posture" tape  by Billy Florence and believe that it has good material.  In fact, wasn't that one of the features of the Diamond Fundamentals tape by Internet Services.  Florence was terminated by Quixtar or resigned, depending on which side you listen to.  I learned a lot through various Internet Services material and found the tapes set to music to be catchy and added another dimension to making the business principles a part of my thinking.  

Don Wilson was also featured in Diamond Fundamentals on depth (D.E.P.T.H) building and Randy Haughen on building width (WIDTH).  Of course these were two of the TEAM affiliated diamondships that resigned (or were terminated).

I was privileged to hear some "older" (older is a relative term) diamonds and emeralds in our organization say that depth building was always a big part of business building, especially with starting newer lines of sponsorship.  Width was a step to take when an individual was more competent and savvy in business building.  Their observation was that TEAM developed a way to systematize the depth building because the newer IBOs needed that part to be integral to training.  In other words they were making improvement in the training system they had learned, not reinventing the wheel.  However, TEAM was breaking diamonds fairly quickly, so there was also width building going on as well once IBOs gained more confidence and stability in the business.  

Our organization became TEAM affiliated this summer just prior to the debacle between TEAM and Quixtar.  I have appreciated the training from TEAM just as I appreciated Internet Services.  TEAM, in my opinion has done a lot to systematize and fine tune more areas than before.  They have built upon and improved what has gone before.  This is growth and healthy.  

I have also become loyal to many Quixtar products such as XS, nutrilite, SA8, Glister, Artistry, etc. and have promoted and sold those products and am not happy that I may not be able to utilize TEAM and Quixtar at the same time.  But I must say that many of my customers that buy SA8 products are old Amway IBOs that quit and are looking to buy "some" of the products that they enjoyed in the past.  It is very hard to attract new customers to many of the products however.  XS and some nutrilite products have worked better.  In some cases I agree that prices are not competitive with Quixtar, but not in all cases.

To me, a small fish in the sea at this time, it seems that both sides have exaggerated charges about the other in order to justify their actions in the midst of the battle.  We all have things we believe in and feel the need to protect and control.  Both sides have a lot to lose in this battle.

Maybe this is just a shot in the dark and may seem out of the question, but I will face the wrath of some and put it on the table.  It would also mean a change in how Quixtar maintains it business.  Why not allow "freedom" in the system for what we know as organizations affiliated with Quixtar to shop around for products that are more competitive?  This may sharpen the Quixtar/Amway supply system, product development, and marketing if the LOS organizations had some choice in setting up lines of supply outside Quixtar/Amway.  Quixtar/Amway would compensate for their products and competitors would have contracts with LOS organizations to do the same.  That would be a good "free market" system within the MLM business and a unique way to do business.  Business owners have the freedom to choose their training system.  Our diamonds were not coerced to affiliate with TEAM, but were convinced that TEAM had a better training system and could leave TEAM with a smooth exit if needed.  Our diamonds also can plan other training alternatives if need be, but may choose not to so as to avoid confusion.  An organization could choose not to engage with other suppliers for products as well.  Of course each organization would need to determine whether it had the market strength to attract other suppliers with a margin that would compensate the IBOs appropriately.  Just a thought.        

Bridgett said:
August 22, 2007 5:45 AM | #

Tex,

You're right, I don't understand what you are saying. I'm sorry.

100 PV still works, but try doing 20 circles of 50 PV.  iI’s more of what’s going on with the stacking (50PV).

If my leg is 20 deep, 50 PV each, and no one is doing any retail, then my leg for my Platinum is in the 12% bracket. There's $348 in the pot (1,000 PV X 2.9 ratio X 12%).

Now next to each circle, put what bonus bracket they are in. From the bottom up, you should have:

1 at 0%

4 at 3%

6 at 6%

8 at 9%

1 at 12%

No one is fulfilling the CVR, so they are just getting paid a bonus back on their personal use. None from their downline, right?

So, here’s the math:

1 x 50 PV x 2.90 x 0% = $0

4 x 50 PV x 2.90 x 3% = $17.40

6 x 50 PV x 2.90 x 6% = $52.20

8 x 50 PV x 2.90 x 9% = $104.40

1 x 50 PV x 2.90 x 12% = $17.40

Add these $$ up and they equal $191.40.

But there’s $348 being produced in this leg. Where’s the other $156.60? In the Platinum’s bonus check.

I realize now Tex, since I followed your advice and drew it out, that the bonus $$ to the Platinum isn’t as high as I thought. If anyone has the time, carry this up another 55 levels, using 50 PV circles, and see how much money is not being paid out to the IBOs, but going right to the Platinum, please do.

Maybe Chris was right. From another blog, that it’s around $500. If that’s the case, that seems kind of unprofitable. So I don’t get why anyone would stack.

Hmmm.

Okay. It’s time for bed.

Tex said:
August 22, 2007 1:33 PM | #

Bridgett,

There's nothing wrong with stacking, but it should be considered a starting point, not the end point.

Do you see how much money can be made, especially by the IBO's at the 9 and 12% levels, in the model you provided, by retailing (even at IBO prices) and/or starting a second/third leg in depth? This is the benefit of stacking, when done properly.

Stacking allows people who know each other to work together more, rather than being crossline. Stacking helps "kickstart" a stalled leg. Stacking provides a larger "bang for the buck" by impacting more IBO's when a new IBO is registered. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.  

Bridgett said:
August 22, 2007 3:39 PM | #

All right. I did the math (I love Excel). If I am a Platinum and have 7,450 down one leg and I do 7,500 then the bonus money generated by the Platinum (if using the current 2.9 PV/BV ratio) is $5,437.50.

If everyone in that one leg (149 IBOships) is running 50PV, and they have not fulfilled the CVR, then they are getting a percentage back on their personal use, based on the bonus bracket they are in. And they are not entitled to any bonus money from downline volume.

The last IBO, doing 50 PV doesn’t get a bonus check, so he’s a zero payout

So here are the numbers:

1 IBO at $0

4 IBOs get $4.35 each      (50 PV x 2.90 x 3%)

6 get $8.70 each      (50 PV x 2.90 x 6%)

8 get $13.05 each    (….x 9%)

10 get $17.40 each    (… 12%)

20 get $21.75 each     (…15%)

30 get $26.10 each     (18%)

40 get $30.45 each    (21%)

30 get $33.35 each    (23%)

Total up all this bonus money and it equals $3,784.50

That means that $1,653 goes to the Platinum.

If everyone was entitled to their full bonus, by doing their Customer Volume Requirement of 50 PV, then the Platinum would only get 2% of the BV, (plus 25% on their own 145 BV)--$468.35—because everyone would be getting a bonus on their personal use AND a bonus on their downline’s (minus what the downline gets to keep).

The Platinum, in this example, makes $1,653 if no one does retail, and $468 if everyone does retail.

Sorry about my earlier numbers. Tex, thanks for the suggestion of drawing it out.

TCotta said:
August 23, 2007 1:38 PM | #

The plot thickens.....I just read that Jim Payne was replaced with a new head of operations (the article indicated he was still around in some capacity).  Anyone know why?  Also, I heard yesterday that Quixtar cancelled it's contract with the IBOAI board and moved to a month to month relationship.  Anyone hear anything about this?  

fmrtodibo said:
August 23, 2007 11:41 PM | #

I knew it was just amatter of time before both of these "greedy organizations" would collide, having been an IBO I watched all this unfold.  First it was with the Team of Destiny(TOD)...a.k.a. TEAM, our platinum was told to work in their other legs while our new diamond would oversee ours, even if we wanted to stay working with our upline platinum we couldn't....strike one TOD,.....next  TOD decided to change their name to TEAM after they told everyone that they were going to be the first organization to have a million IBO's, this was right after Dateline had aired their findings on some of Quixtars/Amways tool business............strike two              now for the curve ball, fine they change their name and maybe they'd be able to get to that one million IBO mark, however all the tapes, and CD's also were changed to TEAM from TOD  same tapes different name, and we couldn't swap or trade for the new material, therefore we had TOD material and TEAM material with exactly the same info. on it very hard to try and promote a business to a new prospect for TEAM with TOD written all over it , so we were forced to leave all the TOD items around to collect dust because they were worthless to the business we were trying to build, and promote..........strike three          Quixtar was told all of this and knew of all of this just like they knew of all the other organizations "tool business" or "the business inside of the business"  and did nothing.....come on people to actually think that all the big money is made thru the quixtar/Amway products is insane it's all from tapes, CD's books and FUNCTIONS (butts in SEATS), it's all about the belief and motivational speakers,  if all the big Money came from the products then products could be bought at the top purchased from bottom and the checks would be astronomical,  but it's in the tool business that makes the organizations run and what drives PV/BV.  Attend weekly meeting, fuctions and be on the system, you'll buy products.....if you choose to stay home , and not participate in the system you might buy now and then however it will be hard to convince your downline(who also isn't on system or atteding meetings to do anything different than you are).  This business runs on belief and deception the faster you can sign people up and get on system the more success you'll have the ones that sign up and just buy now and then are basically a waste of energy and time because they haven't seen the big picture or they don't have the belief yet, or maybe just maybe they were slung in  along with 10 other people just to build depth, and your hoping that some day they'll seen 1000pv in their business and want to start to build it.   Just read all the info that is out there, sure some win,(at their downlines expense) but most lose, not only money but time away from their kids(lots of it) vacation time, time off from work to attended certain meetings(oh yeah, you can write that off on taxes), and some even loose self esteem.  So shame on quixtar and shame on TOD/TEAM or whatever new name you'll call your organization although TEAM does fit - :                Total Embarrassment Among Many

Bridgett said:
August 24, 2007 5:14 AM | #

Tex said Aug 22 "There's nothing wrong with stacking, but it should be considered a starting point, not the end point."

I was using Q/A's definition of "stacking". They like to say "stacking" and "depth-building".

Perhaps IBOFB's terms "inappropriate" and "appropriate" stacking are more your liking.

I guess the word "stacking" makes me think of a bunch of pancakes while "depth building" seems a little more eloquent.

:)

Tex said:
August 24, 2007 2:42 PM | #

fmrtodibo,

I agree with your assessment. What would you think if the tool companies put out their profits? Would pressure from the IBO's bring the prices and profits down? Love your "Total Embarrassment Among Many" as well.

Bridgett,

I like to communicate clearly. Not that I always do, and it is hard in a written blog format.  "Appropriate" and "unappropriate" are good terms to use to ensure clear communication, in my opinion. I could go with appropriate/inappropriate depth building just as easily.

Chica said:
August 28, 2007 1:24 AM | #

I hope the company provides us  w/written concise info.

that we can offer people that come accross this info online or otherwise.

The bad spreads rapidly, we need accurate legal documentation to present to new prospects  so they have the opportunity to check factualy everything that counters specific allegations.

We will need amounition, and Quixtar needs to ready us a.s.a.p.

As far as the name change... can someone tell me the benefits that will bring.

I don't see it

Tex said:
August 28, 2007 3:36 PM | #

Chica,

The benefits are at least fourfold:

1. The company will have a single name worldwide,

2. Many prospects are too young to remember the bad reputation Amway had (plus they simply googled Quixtar to find the negative information, some true, some untrue, and can google Amway just the same),

3. Amway will have to clean up the known problems on the internet to have a chance to survive, and  

4. Orrin has ruined the Quixtar name.

DLSChicago said:
August 29, 2007 12:28 PM | #

Clarification....

1.  The company will have a single (non-reputable) name worldwide.

2.  Jello=branded term for gelatin, Vasoline=branded term for petroleum jelly, Amway=branded term for MLMs that don't work in U.S. by young and old alike.

3.  Quixtar didn't clean up after 20/20, "Amway" will follow suit.

4.  Quixtar ruined the Quixtar name.

Beryl Nichols said:
August 29, 2007 5:08 PM | #

DLSChicago,

Would you please clarify your clarification statement?

Could you possibly be the problem here?  [Edited for personal comments -- RL]  Good Luck

Marcus Robingson said:
August 30, 2007 2:57 PM | #

I'm disappointed in the Alticor family for not owning up to their shortcomings.

Obviously, they're not a leadership driven organization.  If they were, they'd take responsibility for their actions rather than push the blame on an organization like the TEAM.  The TEAM system has been the same for 8 years.  Where was Alticor/Quixtar for those 8 years?  Were they conveniently unaware of what was happening?  Remember, if what the TEAM was doing was unethical, it happened on Alticor's watch.  That would make them an accomplice.  

This is another example of a "corporate giant" taking advantage of the little guy out there.  That's where the TEAM comes in!  It's time to put a stop to these "bloodsuckers" who will stop at nothing, including compromising their character to take money from hard working IBO's who believe in doing the right thing.  I'm doing the right thing, I'm going where the TEAM goes.

Tex said:
August 30, 2007 5:16 PM | #

DLSChicago,

Reclarification/Factification:

1. The early word on the blogs are the Amway word is being received okay. Looks like it's a personal problem to me.

2. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

3. I agree Quixtar didn't take enough action after the 20/20 show, but Amway didn't take enough action after Rich DeVos' "Directly Speaking" recordings in 1983, either. They are still around and have another chance to make things right. The difference now is it is much more visible.

4. The tool profiteers damaged the Amway and Quixtar names.

 

Editor's Note:  An additional clarification is that we did not appear on 20/20. We were featured in a story by Dateline NBC.   -- RL

Tex said:
August 30, 2007 5:23 PM | #

Marcus,

I'm disappointed in Alticor/Quixtar/Amway, too.

But TEAM also has their own problems, and the other tool systems have their own problems as well. It appears Quixtar tried to get TEAM to "fly right" for several years, nobody on TEAM has refuted the original Quixtar termination announce that their problems didn't start recently.

Should Quixtar have booted them when TEAM first started screwing up, and not given them a chance to fix the areas they were breaking the rules? Would this have made you happy?

The "bloodsuckers" are TEAM, and most of the other tool companies, who make most of their profit via the tools, then pretend it came from Quixtar.

If you're going with TEAM, I only have one thing to say to you: bub-bye.  

Tex said:
August 31, 2007 12:09 PM | #

Editor,

You're right, it was Dateline NBC.

But the real question is what are you going to do with the issues raised, not which network was the show on?

Beryl Nichols said:
August 31, 2007 7:13 PM | #

Isn't it strange how things go.  We sign up in Amway/Quixtar to be an "Independent Business Owner." We go about building this business and following our upline leaders.  We are following the "System" that is the 8 Steps or  whatever you call it.

Enter the flim-flam men. They come up with a novel idea of "using the allegiance of these IBO's" to sell tapes, books, meetings and seminars to the masses.  

Rich DeVos put out a series of Directly Speaking speeches in the early 80's warning of running illegal businesses.  He asked the leadership to stop.

Who's responsibility was it to stop the "education?"

Was it Rich's responsibility?  He didn't manufacture the systems and how-to tapes.  The corp didn't manufacture them either.

Who's responsibility was it when your plane went down and you were killed?  Not the pilot.  Not the airline.  It was YOUR total responsibility, because it was YOU that purchased the ticket to fly in the first place!  

When everything comes to a head everyone is pointing the finger at everybody but themselves.  I have purchased many tapes, books, and seminars and I don't blame anyone but myself.  I might add that because of them I haven't had a "job" in many years.

The leadership in TEAM reminds me of watching a herd of cats covering their poop.  You know, that's what a cat does.  Covers it before anyone knows who it belongs to.

Dominiana McLaughlin said:
September 3, 2007 9:23 AM | #

I hope this can be resolved very soon!

John Webster said:
September 3, 2007 11:09 PM | #

The only comment I have is that I built my business for some time before my upline diamonds met the TEAM leaders and adopted thier approach to building. I was struggling then took off like a rocket after adopting TEAM approach. I left my full time job on March 5th of this year and have TEAM's business building strategy to thank for my retirement at age 39. I just wish these people would goto arbitration like it says is supposed to happen in the paperwork I signed when becoming an IBO

DLSChicago said:
September 4, 2007 12:34 PM | #

Tex,

Just wondering how you know so much about how TEAM works and how long it has been screwing up.  Are you on the board or a former member of TEAM?  You speak as if you are an expert on the subject so please enlighten us on where you get your information.  We'd also love to hear about your status as an IBO and how you are building correctly so others that are left behind to build Amway after TEAM leaves will have a "blessed by Tex" path to follow.  Not trying to be entirely sarcastic but many people in this blog may choose to follow your lead since you and only a handful of others are doing Amway the right way.  Please share.

jthompson said:
September 5, 2007 11:12 AM | #

"LisBette said:

August 14, 2007 4:12 PM | #

Stephen A. Draper, unlike you I HAVE seen the private side of several diamonds personally.  You know, been to their homes, spent time with their children, their parents, and other family members (even those not in the business!). I've been to church with them, seen them spend thousands of hours on improving themselves and their businesses so they can help more people.

Woodward and Brady are even better in private than what they show in public.  More humble, more selfless, more interested in making the best business opportunity possible. If they are masters of disguise, then I think they have fooled even themselves!\"

Lisbette i think is/was an Emerald on TEAM.  She is one of the Leaders and Morale Builders on freetheibo.com.  Lisbette is very transparent in her blog communications I have read... and she is honest.. and i respect her.  I don't think she would say anything except what she believes.  I like Lisbette.

I know how you feel... i have been in the homes of my upline leaders.  I have become friends with the kids of my upline EDCs.  I have seen them in public and private... and they are the same.  They are ordinary people who have made extraordinary decisions.  They are not perfect, but i believe they are some of the most outstanding people i have met... and i have met great leaders.  I can understand... I'd feel the same way if i bloggers on the internet were attaching my friends/mentors.

Question - Do you believe that Orrin Woodward has greater integrity/morality than King David of the bible ("a man after Gods own heart")?  Do you think the devil/tempter plays fair?  David committed adultery/murder despite is almost perfect track record.  He repented and was restored.

Now Orrin did not committ adultery or murder... although he trying to bring down a 6billion dollar Corporation by calling them an Illegal Pyramid which is bogus and by hired Ashton partners to help create a PR campaign to hurt Quixtar/Amway reputation.

Orrins actions temporarily hurt the businesses of millions of ibos by hurting the image of their brand name.  Thankfully Quixtar/Amway and others have stepped up and minimized damages... and are fine.

Read my comments on Sept 4 about the way Orrin handled things on August 9.

The past does not equal the future.  Just b/c Orrin may possibly have had a great track record, that does not mean to close your eyes and ignore errors in judgement he makes in the future.

I read Pastor Dickies letter of how he knows Orrin better than anyone... and how Orrin wanted to handle everything is a "christian manner" and made a "Godly appeal" to the Corporation to waive their non-compete rules.

LisBette, there is absolutely nothing Godly about the way Orrin/TEAM made their appeal with Quixtar....  Having a 47 page lawsuit prepared and a negative PR campaign ready as LEVERAGE or REVENGE if Quixtar refused to Let Orrin break the rules and get out of a non-compete contract that he has signed for the last 5 years.

He may have a great past.  He may have a great future.  but the present looks pretty crappy in the category of integrity to me.

If Orrin is as good of a Leaders as people like you tell me he is... and if he gets humble again... he may be added to my list of mentors.

If my upline leader/friend did what Orrin did.... I would talk to him and say "buddy, i love you.  I am going to be loyal to you... but what you did was wrong."

jt

Dale said:
September 5, 2007 12:35 PM | #

I have been an IBO for about 6 yrs , not very active at times. I have always used ( once I tried the product) the cleaning and laundry products. Plus using the Partner stores at times. I was just about to get on the run again when this happened. My upline , sponsor and Diamond all Team, Question  who now is my Diamond and upline and sponsor and how do I proceed with this, I need to Know for mysake and down line

Jim McDonald said:
September 5, 2007 2:31 PM | #

I have read a lot of comments about stacking, prices, and tools. I think most who are making those statements are totaly misinformed ( to put it politely)

1. Stacking has always been against company policy. Building down one leg at a time is not stacking when the new IBO knows their sponser. It's when the newest IBO has no idea who their sponsor is that problems start.

2. Prices have never been an issue. If you want cheap, go to the 99cent store. If you want quailty at a fair price, we have what you need, besides, if you do what you should (if you really are in business, and if you are taking the tax deductions you had better be building the business.) your product cost will drop as your business builds. We sell a lot of retail, some at more than retail cost.

3. It was stated that big monies are made off of the tools, yes, there is money made there (this is a Business) I'm not Platinum yet, but I have been told that in our training system,  a strong Platinumship would have approx. 50 to 75 businesses using the tools. And as a Platinum, you would recieve 50 cents per CD. WOW, I'll be making maybe a couple of hundred bucks a month.  I can certainly retire on that.  And yes, I know that the Emeralds and Diamonds have larger businesses and they receive more because of volume.  But most think that the tools are all profit. They don't know how much production cost is.

fmrtodibo said:
September 8, 2007 1:29 AM | #

Jim: well you're partially correct on your assessment on tools you're not a platinum yet that's, "Why you don't know,what you don't know, that's why you don't have. Because if you knew, what you knew then you'd have, because to know and not do, is to not to know."-C. Combden I love this talk I've heard it so many times on a tape that I purchased while in the biz. Ask yourself this question, you are a IBO right, an Independent Business Owner, so why can't you get a percentage off every tape, CD, and book that you sell to your downline. hmmm cuz it's the "system" ! In a true business you buy something and then sell it for profit if you didn't you wouldn't have a business would ya. and to think that all the big money doesn't come from tools then where does all these huge estates, yachts, tour buses etc, come from surely not fromjust the bonus money from Quixtar, Look it up, look what a emerald makes in a year, look what a diamond makes, it's all about the tools, move tools, get IBO's on system follow the "powerplayer formula" and get your downline to do the same, and you'll move product. No system, no influence over downline period,.....remember your downline will only do what their upline will do. If you don't attend a function how can you expect your downline to show up....more butts in seats equals more tapes, CD's and books will be purchased at the tool table. It's just that simple,,the more tapes sold the more influence to purchase 150pv, focus on "core" products then you'll get more PV for the dollar, yes they're great products, and maybe they're priced a little high, but that's the business you signed up for. The leaders are wanting cheaper prices so they can move more product(volume) but if the big money came from just Quixtar/Amway then why fight Quixtar's pricing if anything you'd fight for a higher price and a better profit percentage, now the TEAM leaders no longer have Quixtar products, but they still have TEAM and they'll still sell tapes,CD's and Books because that is their buisness.

sam said:
September 19, 2007 5:55 PM | #

i couldn't believe it when i got the "can the guys that we dissagree with" letter from quixtar!  it reminds me of when i sold life insurance with the dallas texas "college master" company that sold insurance on a note to college kids.  i , and many of my associates sold millions of dollars of life insurance only to be terminated just weeks before being "vested", thereby insuring our general manager got all the renewals!  nice guy, dave had no problem canning his top producer of all time, tom,  to get his renewals, because the guy had a rat trap out back...... an obvious conflict of business intrests, having a rat trap business and selling insurance sure couldn't mix.  i see quixtar fizzling like ole dave's business did.  it appears that you are canabalizing your own selves in order to guarantee the total destruction of the entire business.  i'm very sorry to hear this actually, it is a terrible thing to see so many peoples businesses trashed after so many years of hard work.  GOD will work it out.

Michael Berg said:
November 17, 2007 3:31 AM | #

Many of you have referred to "the little guy" or someone who has not yet built a large business as the ones getting hurt in this mess of a divorce between Quixtar and TEAM. Maybe it would be refreshing to all of you to get a perspective from just such a person.

I have been involved since 2003, and have yet to surpass 2500 PV and have had mostly one leg at that, so I think I qualify as "a little guy". I built the business with InterNet's tools, Legacy's tools and TEAM tools, TEAM's are by far the best.

Let me break down how much I've spent and earned. So far, I've earned about $6,000.00 from Q and nothing from TEAM in 4 1/2 years. I've probably spent more than that on buying products for my personal use at higher prices from Quixtar than I could have got them from Wal-Mart (on a side note: I am not disparaging Quixtar, their products are better quality, besides, this is America, a company can charge whatever it wants in a free market) and I've probably spent 5 times that on tools, events, etc. So why would I do that, and why would I still be loyal to TEAM, who has paid me nothing?

First, I have heard a lot of flak about people profiting from BSMs. Yet no one has ever accused Amazon of profiteering on the books they sell. Of course there's a profit, why would a BSM company operate without one? The books are sold at list price or less, so who cares? The CD's are sold at $6.00 each, far less than you would pay for an Marilyn Manson CD, but you never hear a rant about their CD's being overpriced or F.Y.E. profiteering from the sales of those CDs. I could say the same about the DVDs and the meetings, but you get the idea. Here's one fundamental difference: TEAM will share the profit with me at some point. Will Amazon or F.Y.E.? I think the point is moot.

So why am I so loyal? Because the education system has changed my life, that's why. I have a better job now. I am going to church again. My wife decided not to leave me (she was going to) and we now have a great relationship (and a new baby). I have a great relationship with my 4 older kids now. I have lots more friends. I live in a better house and have less debt. My blood pressure has dropped and I rarely get sick. My life is full and rich now, where it was bleak and meaningless before. Sure, I'm not money rich, we still struggle sometimes financially, more often than not. But, my life has radically changed for the better since I signed the application less than 5 years ago, and none of that came from Quixtar. I owe my family, my relationship with God and very possibly the life of my newborn son to the system. So you can say what you want, argue semantics, demonstrate how right you and your side are, none of that will ever matter to me. I'm sure there are thousands that agree with me.

I thank God every day that I have access to this information, and pray that I will continue to use it for the good it was intended for.

John Williams ok said:
August 20, 2008 10:15 AM | #

Pretty nice site, wants to see much more on it! :)

confused and worried said:
August 19, 2009 12:10 PM | #

"The TEAM's paradigm focuses on leadership by driving depth through one LOS (Line of sponsorship). When the IBO is trained and can begin to function alone by driving depth, he/she will start his/her second LOS. As the 2nd LOS grows deeper, leaders duplicate their mentors. Leadership duplication can be explosive in new IBO growth and in retention of those IBOs. Selling products is not emphasized at all, consuming products is.  Product volume is secondary - leadership development is primary."

I know this is a very old post but I'm a new IBO and was looking for more information on Amway Global. I was reading this post and the above is how my team works! This is exactly what they tell us to do! Is this illegal??? Please, please, I need to know if the team I'm on is working correctly.

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