Quixtar Ada-tudes: A View from the Top : Random Thoughts

Random Thoughts

Wednesday, May 02, 2007 by Todd Krause
Category: First Circle, Quixtar Philosophy

Here’s a random firing so bear with me, I don’t mean to preach. I happened upon a quote recently that made me think about the Quixtar business opportunity and why our First Circle Transformation is so important to keep us aligned with the philosophy of free enterprise set down by Rich DeVos and Jay VanAndel back in 1959. I’m not saying that there is anything real new here or revolutionary, just another way of thinking about where we need to focus.

“So, then to every man his chance. To every man regardless of birth, his shining golden opportunity. To every man the right to live, to work, to be himself. And, to become whatever thing his manhood and his vision can combine to make him. This seeker is the promise of America.” - Thomas Wolfe

All right, enough of the flag waving and sentiment – but sometimes that’s OK.

Small business is a large part of the great American success story. Small business owners are the entrepreneurs, the builders, the innovators willing to take a chance and do something others aren’t willing to. Quixtar can’t be considered a small business anymore like it was in 1959, but I would like to think that we will always be a small business at heart.

Each day we deal with thousands of small businesses at Quixtar – our IBOs, and believe me when I say that we are grateful that they are there. In order to continue to attract those looking for opportunity to our business, we need to be able to deliver on offering the plan and support they can put their hope in.

My opinion is that there seems to be almost an anti-success mood that prevails in our culture where achievers are distrusted and success in business must be apologized for as if it were a violation of moral law. Don’t get me wrong, our business has had its share of rogues but I also believe that the vast majority who participate in Quixtar are there to do it right. I am proud that we offer an opportunity where, for a small investment, people can participate in the free enterprise system. Our job is to make certain it remains viable and relevant with First Circle – helping more IBOs make more money sooner – at its core.

Comments

Piet Strydom said: May 2, 2007 12:17 PM | #

I think you are spot on.

Amway/Quixtar has always been for the small guy. Yes, you can build a big business, but only by helping a zillion small guys.

And I think quietly, MLMs are revolutionising society - factory and agricultural productivity growth has been enormous in the last hundred years, and now it is time to radically improve the distribution systems that get this products to consumers.

On a different level as well, we were taught that there are four production resources in an economy - labour, raw materials, capital and entrepreneurship, each with its own reward. Traditional business tends to only reward people for their labour, by only paying a wage. Because people aren't paid a profit share, over time employees tend to stop making their entrepreneurial contributions - why bother if you are not going to be rewarded?

This business allows more people to use their entrepreneurial abilities in a very safe environment. Over time, this will improve the caliber of people flocking to MLM's in general, A/Q in particular. While over time traditional corporates struggle with employees that are less and less enthusiastic.

And maybe we are seeing the first beginnings of that in the American automotive industry?

The point of this ramble is: keep the building blocks true to the original idea, and people will be able to build magnificent buildings, each suited to its own era.

Regards

Josh said: May 2, 2007 12:41 PM | #

Hi Todd,

Good random thought! As many of us here know, this country was founded on the Free Enterprise system. In my opinion it is what makes the United States great.

More so than any other nation we still have the most free society on the planet. We have invented more technologies, more art, Nobel prize winners than any other country.

I don't say this to gloat about the U.S. but to prove a point, that the freest (is that a word?) people have the most choices and thereby are innovators, creators, and explorers.

As to the anti-success mindset, I agree with that. I don't think it has to do with success as a whole, but rather responsibility. We have a sort of lottery mentality. Example, if I can only invent something, win a lottery, or anything that doesn't involve a ton of responsibility.

This is never more apparent than in this great business. It is a people business and you are responsible for the success of not only yourself, but to those that also want to succeed. For many, myself included at first, this is a scary thought. Many times a person will self sabotage their success because of this fear.

I think somewhere in our history we have learned to shun or redirect responsibility or blame the next guy. My hope is to help educate people that responsibility is a good thing and can be very lucrative as well.

Thanks for the post.

Tex said: May 2, 2007 4:54 PM | #

Todd,

How's the First Circle coming along?

Addressing your other points, there will always be outside detractors.

The key is to have an honest business, which is very difficult in the current tool profit environment.

For those of you who erroneously believe I am overemphasizing this fact, think about Enron. It was the "darling" of the business world until the truth came out, then it crashed and burned.

There is much similarity with Q, as the tool profit being the major source of profit, not Q, is becoming more commonly known.

Since this industry as a whole is not regarded by many to be a "real" business, it is largely ignored. Also, the private ownership of Q allows them not to make the public reports and filings a publicly owned business would have to do.

However, this does not equate to the ability for Q to ignore the tool profit issue, and it appears they are now taking action, however slow it may appear to be.

rocket said: May 2, 2007 8:31 PM | #

.."I also believe that the vast majority who participate in Quixtar are there to do it right."

From what I've seen, there are undoubtedly people who do it right. Problem is, they aren't the "leaders".

If you can name one diamond or above "leader" not making a great deal of their money from the motivation I would be surprised.

I don't think it's an anti success culture at all. From what I see, people's assertions about Quixtar, the opportunity, and the deceipt that is alleged to be within it isn't incorrect.

Did any of you Quixtar management folks watch Dateline? Would that not be considered deceit?

Come on man, that was pretty bad, suggesting that an extra quarter million could be made in that period of time.

I know what you are saying, and yes, it's too bad society is so cynical.

But Amway/Quixtar's actions up until now have contributed to that mindset, and many people consider you the makers of your own misfortune.

Unless you do decide to become transparent and honest, that will continue. There's a lot of people who do Quixtar right, and you've let a lot of them down.

Looking for the reason for cynicism towards Amway/Quixtar? Look in the mirror.

Ty Tribble said: May 2, 2007 11:42 PM | #

One thing you could do is bring the Quixtar compensation plan more in line (payout wise) with the rest of the industry. I have seen reports that the top 30 companies in Network Marketing pay out 37.4% of the revenues back to associates and IBOs. Quixtar pays out around 30% and that money seems to be heavily weighted to the back end.

In my 10 plus years of following Quixtar/Amway, I have never really heard of someone leaving another Network Marketing company for the Quixtar opportunity, but I meet a lot of people that were once in Quixtar/Amway and are noe successful with other companies.

I respect the progress that you are making and look forward to seeing more.

Robin said: May 3, 2007 3:57 PM | #

Rocket,

Of course we've seen the Dateline episode on Quixtar, and you're right that the income representations made by the IBO caught on hidden camera were appalling. When such abuses are discovered, we deal with them through our disciplinary process, as we did in this case.

Fortunately, the majority of IBOs building a Quixtar business do not engage in practices that violate our Rules of Conduct. Unfortunately, Dateline chose to show only a few stories of those who were "doing it wrong" and did not attempt to obtain footage of someone "doing it right." For more on Quixtar's response to the episode, please check out www.quixtarresponse.com.

We agree about the need for transparency and honesty, as evidenced by the creation of the Opportunity Zone. We're not ducking our obligations with regards to abuses in our business; instead, we're tackling the issues head on. Through training, accreditation, public disclosure, and efforts to help more IBOs make more money sooner, we'll hopefully soon see more and more IBOs "doing it right" -- and enjoying success with their Quixtar businesses.

rocket said: May 3, 2007 10:21 PM | #

Yes, I certainly did read Quixtar's response. Funny thing is, any plan showing I've been to was very similar to what Mr. Fredericks was saying. Perhaps not as over the top, but misleading and dishonest nontheless. In my opinion, that was a prime example of what happens during these plan showings with new prospects. No amount of spin control can make that simple fact go away.

So as far as Dateline doing a story on someone doing it right, I must respectfully disagree with your opinion on what Dateline did. The fact is, it happens more than Quixtar is prepared to admit. This is done by the "leaders", who have yet to have been dealt with in a transparent manner for all IBO's to see.

On the same vein of transparency, I don't believe that IBO's were informed as to what the outcome was with Mr. Fredericks, as far as what actions Quixtar took. Before you respond with some rhetoric about privacy for the IBO, may I remind you that there are a number of IBO's who would likely prefer to know what the outcome of that was. In order for them to be able to respond to criticisms of that report, I believe it would be in the best interest of the IBO to be able to respond to that with something like:

"When Quixtar found out about these outrageous assertations made by that man, they terminated/suspended him because they will not tolerate that sort of irresponsible behaviour. Once people start doing those types of things, it affects all IBO's in a negative light."

Rather Than:

"Yeah, Quixtar took the appropriate action on him for doing that. They took it really seriously".

Honestly, which do you think would help alleviate the prospect's concerns more?

Transparency is more than a word, I'm afraid.

Tex said: May 4, 2007 11:29 AM | #

I agree with rocket, the only thing Fredericks did was get caught on tape saying words that described the tool income level.

This doesn't make the high level of tool income untrue for the rest of them.

I think Q would be hard pressed to find ONE example of a large business that was not being run to make most of the profit from tools instead of Q.

If Q had one or more examples, they would have held them up to counter the Fredericks example.

If you find it, let me know.

I know the tools would be much less expensive (less overhead for my business) and I could tie into an honest business group.

It doesn't look good to have a specific example on one side and then make generic statements on the other side, without some real examples.

I realize the "transparency thing" is a process, but we're only on the planet for a few decades, how long is it going to take to get real about what is going on?

We have Rich's 1983 "Directly Speaking" recordings, and virtually NOTHING has happened since.

How many more decades do we wait, Robin?

Cathi Jo Baender said: May 4, 2007 11:51 AM | #

Rocket

Who do you define as a leader? We are IBO's in

Canada and have been for 25 years. We have definitely seen and been exposed to much of the past cynicism and negativism you talk about....but does one see the "glass as half-empty" or "half-full"? To us great leaders are not only IBOs with large organizations but the newest IBO who encounters a cynical attitude but continues on. or IBOs that have not yet seen great monetary success but are an inspiration to those around them because of their positive attitude or those IBO's who may have a growing organization but are still learning and willing to admit that they do make mistakes but will learn from them. The Quixtar business plan has not and will never be dishonest and misleading...it presents the numbers and results...IF ONE IS LOOKING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY HAS AN OPEN MIND AND IS NOT AFRAID TO BE TEACHABLE. I am assuming by your letter that you are not an IBO... If you believe 'any plan showing I've been to' is not truthful then you need to forward those names to our disciplinary committee and they will deal with them. Quixtar is built upon integrity, honesty, character,genuine concern for others and yes... transparency. There will always be "bad apples" and "the naysayers and dreamstealers" no matter what endeavor one talks about, but once again I ask "Is the glass half-empty or half-full? As for cynicism...something was said about looking in the mirror?

Jeffrey said: May 4, 2007 3:22 PM | #

There is one thing that Quixtar can do, but has not been willing to so far: Put an interactive compensation plan on the site. You pick the number of front line, downline, amount of personal retail and personal use, and the amount in the circles. It's almost there, but it's not for prospects to see. Huh? That does not make sense to me. Could it be shown at an Open? Absolutely. Put it on a DVD and hook it up to a big screen. It's only Platinums and above that put on Opens, so I think they can afford it.

I'm not even going to get into tool profits, but it should be made mandatory that IBOs presenting the plan be required to say, "If you achieve the Platinum level, there may be other sources of income available from the LOS that is not included in this presentation of the compensation plan" just like we have to say that the average active IBO earns $115 per month.

The sooner Quixtar puts up a totally interactive compensation plan on the site and says everyone must use it, the better. And for those that whine and moan about this being an "independent business," go get a franchise and see how independent you are.

Pedro Gonzales said: May 4, 2007 4:35 PM | #

Hey good topic about making the first cirle work, but why do you have to equate it to the principles that our nation was founded upon? What does Free Enterprise have to do with making the first circle work? In fact, in my perception, making the first circle work has to do with competition don't you think? If I worked for, or owned, a Ford vehicle company why would I drive a Toyota? Excuse me for being so bland, but I think we need to keep things in perspective.

Tex said: May 4, 2007 4:59 PM | #

Jeffrey,

I agree with most of what you said, but more needs to be said regarding tool profits. Just to say "other sources" without saying what those sources are or how big they are, is not going far enough. If the tool profit makes up a large percentage of the lifestyle, the source and amount of tool income must be made known.

Greg said: May 4, 2007 5:54 PM | #

When did the Date Line program on Q air?

Here we go again. When will Q finally say ENOUGH!

It isn't like this was the first there was a negative report on Q. The story is always the same and I'll bet that the offending IBO's come from the same systems.

Come on Q WAKE UP! Who is running this company! You talk about most of us doing it right, but unfortunatly the media is just waiting for one idiot to do it wrong. There can be no tolerance of this kind of behavior being the face of Q. We can't afford it!

This is an example of terrible leadership at the highest LOA level and is exactly why Q needs to step in NOW and provide the training and tools.

Systems have been around long enough to get it right. It's obvious they either can't or won't!

I believe it is Q duty to take action NOW to eliminate the kind of behavior Dateline was talking about. We aren't talking about one individual. It's going to take a worldwide change coming from the top leadership down.

rocket said: May 4, 2007 8:23 PM | #

In response to Cathi Jo Baender,

I define a leader as someone who is at a level in which they are promoting and providing motivational "tools".

As far as the glass being half empty or half full, I am an optomist in general, however, my optomism has its limits. Quixtar is one of them. Given that you have 25 years experience, I have no doubt that you are optomistic, particularly if you are on the tools system. However, what level are you at? After 25 years in a system that works, you no doubt are at least at the EDC level, are you not?

If not, why not? Does the system not work?

I have never said the Quixtar business plan is dishonest and misleading, I was referring to the presenter of the opportunity in the Dateline episode.

As far as you looking for people who are looking fo an opportunity, are open minded, and aren't AFRAID to be teachable;

What is that? are you suggesting that anyone who chose not to participate in Quixtar is all of the above? Afraid to be teachable? Closed minded? Not looking for an opportunity? If they say no to Quixtar then they are, by default, afraid to be taught?

I was an IBO in the True North org. in Canada. MOST of the tactics on the Dateline episode (for which Mr. Fredericks was allegedly dealt with appropriately by Quixtar for) were very similar to my experiences in True North. I'm sure your group is different, otherwise you wouldn't be involved.

If you truly believe Quixtar is built on honesty, integrity and transparency, then I suggest you listen to the directly speaking tapes Mr. Devos made in 1983. They speak about the tools abuses that "continue to this day" in Mr. Devos' words.

You must understand that not believing in something does not necessarily make one cynical. I don't think someone is cynical because they don't believe in communism.

I note that Quixtar does not seem to want to share just how Mr. Fredericks was dealt with. That one Dateline show likely devastated a number of IBO's prospects. You would be one of those people affected. My point to Quixtar was simply that if I was still an IBO, I would want to know how the company dealt with this extremely poor example of my business in action. You should too, if you are serious about your business. That is not being transparent, no matter how you want to slice it.

One more thing. Your use of words is interesting, because they suggest that someone who is not interested in Quixtar is not looking for an opportunity, closed minded, and afraid to be teachable.

Just a friendly observation, but that in itself seems to be pretty judgemental.

And arrogant.

Josh said: May 5, 2007 1:20 PM | #

Jeffrey,

Just to let you know, when I show the plan at an "open" I do mention exactly what you talk about as far as the tools are concerned.

So please do not assume that everyone isn't doing that.

Just an FYI.

Josh said: May 6, 2007 1:04 AM | #

Rocket,

Ever consider that perhaps Mr. Fredricks didn't want the information disclosed? Quixtar might be willing and able to do so, but a little thing called the privacy act might be restricting that.

Watching garbage like that Dateline episode is what corrupts many prospects and many IBOs. Instead of doing their own research they would rather have the research of a person who for one: had an ulterior motive, and two: Was only "in" the business for a couple months. And they will take this as hard facts. I didn't watch it but have heard of what was "reported".

How come they didn't "report" on the success of many people in Q*? How come they didn't "report" on the thousands upon thousands Q* has given away to charity, like the Easter Seals (number one supporter if I recall)? Why do we not hear about all these good things? Because the reporter had an agenda. To spin only a negative story to produce ratings and thus further his/her career.

Did you notice not too long ago that NBC accepted a donation from Q*(Amway Alticor) on the Today Show for some charity, I believe it was for $250,000. Seems to me NBC should be the one investigated. Condone and then accept $$ when it is convenient.

rocket said: May 6, 2007 7:41 PM | #

Hey man, I watched it, I have an opinion based on what I saw and heard.

You have a number of thoughts and strong opinions, yet admit you haven't seen it.

Forgive me if I dismiss your opinion, as you can only go by what you were told about it. Perhaps you should know what you are defending. Easy enough to watch it. If you are online doing this, you can check it out at a number of different sites. Out of respect for this blog, I won't mention them here, but you can email me for them.

In any event, obviously Quixtar /Amway has had enough. Have you heard about what's going on across the pond?

If you are an IBO, you should get informed. It's important.

In any event, you should know what you are talking about before attempting to minimize it. If you are an IBO, you deserve to know how this type of thing is dealt with. So you can do yourt business without that sort of albatross hanging around your neck.

I'm kinda on your side here.

Editor's Response Posted by Anna Bryce:

In regards to what's going on across the pond, please visit Amway Media Blog. This new blog is the place to watch for further updates.

We'll continue to alert you to new information at that blog as it's posted but you can sign up for an RSS feed for immediate notification of updates.

Ty Tribble said: May 6, 2007 8:36 PM | #

Josh,

No Quixtar corporate leaders or field leaders honored any requests for Dateline interviews. Your information is simply wrong.

Editor's Note:
We learned that two Dateline producers had registered as Quixtar IBOs and for months had been conducting undercover research for the Dateline story, which included using a hidden camera to videotape meetings and conversations with Quixtar IBOs. The Dateline producers did not identify themselves as working for Dateline, instead feigning interest in building a business powered by Quixtar. Quixtar was eventually contacted by one of the Dateline producers, seeking response to a handful of questions. Dateline's deceit in registering producers as Quixtar IBOs under false pretenses created suspicion on Quixtar's part that the story would not be a realistic depiction of its business. In addition, much of Dateline's "reporting" appeared to be lifted directly from the Web site of a Quixtar critic, who boasted online of his involvement in Dateline NBC's story.

Quixtar's management team also considered Dateline's record, including the infamous broadcast in which Dateline NBC rigged truck crashes. In late 1992, General Motors sued Dateline for defamation – the first defamation suit GM had ever filed. Dateline NBC apologized and admitted that using sparking devices to trigger a fire was a bad idea.

So, while Quixtar provided comprehensive written responses to Dateline in the hopes of creating greater awareness and understanding, it did not grant an interview. It was, and remains, our belief that Quixtar's perspective would be taken out of context to support Dateline's story line, regardless of the facts.

Katie Pearsall
Editor -- Opportunity Zone

Jeffrey said: May 6, 2007 9:41 PM | #

You might as well spit into the wind, Tex, because they are not going to do anything about it. I just know that I'm going to build my business without tools from the upline, just to prove that it can be done. There are only two ways that the tools fiasco is ever going to end; by Q ending it and kicking out those that continue doing it (not going to happen), or by the downlines not buying them (also not going to happen.) Just get busy and build a big retail business and most of your IBOs will come out of that. Then teach them to build a big retail business and their IBOs will come out of that. If every IBO would do that, the tool system would end and the volume wouldn't be flat anymore.

Tex said: May 6, 2007 10:23 PM | #

Speaking of random thoughts and transparency, is there any truth to the rumors about Amway in UK being put on hold until they straighten things out?

It is all over the blog world, is it true? It has Ben Woodward's name and a phone number that traces to Amivo. Here's a link: mlmleads.eu

Editor's Response Posted by Anna Bryce:

Yes, the memo is real. You can read it for yourself at Amway Media Blog. This new blog is the place to watch for further updates.

We'll continue to alert you to new information at that blog as it's posted but you can sign up for an RSS feed for immediate notification of updates.

Piet Strydom said: May 7, 2007 6:21 AM | #

Aren't the Dateline guys the ones that "assisted" A GM vehicle's fuel tank to explode to prove that the fuel tanks were unsafe?

Goes back a while though, even longer than the Quixtar story serves me right.

Piet Strydom said: May 7, 2007 6:22 AM | #

Oh. and I see Tex has been successful again...

Piet Strydom said: May 7, 2007 11:51 AM | #

Jeffrey said: ...because they are not going to do anything about it.

Piet says: What do you want them to do?

Josh said: May 7, 2007 12:49 PM | #

Katie,

Thank you for the comments. This is exactly why I love to posting on here than at any other blog. Probably why I only post here.

I know that when comments are made, incorrectly, they will commented with facts!

Thanks again

Jeffrey said: May 7, 2007 3:19 PM | #

I about fell off my chair when I saw what Amway is doing in the UK. That's exactly what needs to happen here. Put an end to IBO-produced BSMs immediately and kick out all of those who do not comply. This is a retail and distribution business. It is not an IBO training and motivational business. We make money by moving products and by sponsoring others who move products. If these Diamonds want to make money on training and motivational products, then they should buy out Nightengale-Conant or Zig Ziglar.

And as far as anything on Q or A in the media goes, I have a simple philosophy: Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.

Tex said: May 7, 2007 6:19 PM | #

Anna,

Thanks, and congratulations for taking strong action. As I told Ben on the site you provided, I can't wait for another "British Invasion" taking similar actions over here.

This is one IBO who is completely on your side, and I suspect there are/will be many others, once they find out the truth.

Ty Tribble said: May 7, 2007 10:39 PM | #

C'mon Gang.

Quixtar has an entire site dedicated to interviews that Dateline did not do, yet they declined to do interviews.

That's transparent?

You can do better than that and frankly, Quixtar never really disputed the facts of the Dateline show, just the messengers.

Ty Tribble said: May 7, 2007 10:44 PM | #

P.S.

GM actually paid out over $5 million in a national class acition over the fuel tanks...

Tex said: May 8, 2007 12:16 AM | #

As a followup on the UK story, I saw on another blog that Team5k is no longer on the accredited list.

Are these stories related?

Why is Team5k no longer on the list?

Is Team5k trying to get re-accredited?

Are there any other LOA tool systems being approved, there haven't been any for several months?

Editor's Note Published by Anna Bryce:

Team5k is no longer on the list of accredited organizations because they have merged with another LOA that has not been accredited. This is unrelated to the actions taken recently in the UK.

We do not disclose status of LOAs in the accreditation process. When new LOAs become accredited as part of our Professional Development Accreditation Program, we post that information to the PDAP site.

Robin said: May 8, 2007 11:41 AM | #

Ty, you're absolutely correct. We did not grant live interviews. It was apparent to us from Dateline's communications that their story was complete and they were only seeking the "icing on the cake," which we were not inclined to provide.

We did provide a lot of information to the producers to dispute certain claims and clarify our processes for dealing with IBO conduct that does not abide by our Rules of Conduct. [Oh, and we did take disciplinary action with the individual caught on hidden camera creating inflated earnings expectations.]

We did recommend industry spokespersons (i.e., the Direct Selling Association), but Dateline producers declined to pursue those interviews.

At the events they attended, Dateline producers had ample opportunity to obtain "hidden camera" comments from other IBOs that would have provided a more balanced view of our business, but they didn't. Because that didn't support the story they were creating.

Finally, we took the Dateline segment very seriously and began down a long, hard road of scrutinizing the role and value of BSMs in our business. We acknowledge they create issues in our business that we're working hard to rectify through transparency on related income and ensuring tools are of high quality and value (market demand plays a role in that as well) and are accompanied by money-back guarantees.

At QuixtarResponse.com, we did not merely attack the "messengers," although we did try to reveal what motivations these people may have had. We provided responses to Dateline claims. They talked about inflated earnings claims. We said we don't support this and take action when brought to our attention through our dispute resolution process.

We also spoke about the nature of our business, which was under fire. We explained our frequent disclosures to IBOs, all of whom should know what average earnings in our business are and all of whom should be aware of BSMs, their optional nature, and the income IBOs earn from them.

Dateline chose to share footage about people lighting candles to illustrate that we're some sort of weird, cult-like business. Actual people in attendance viewed it as a tangible, meaningful illustration of the power of our business, where one person's efforts with a few can spread rapidly across a wide population. The producers knew that this sort of demonstration doesn't happen at shareholder meetings for traditional businesses and would put us in a bad light (no pun intended). To me, passing the flame from one person to another illustrates exactly why we ARE a different business in a GOOD way.

I lived and breathed the Dateline story for at least 18 months. The decision to participate or not in interviews was long-discussed and debated, but in the end I stand behind the decision to not put a sacrificial lamb in front of those cameras, because it was never Dateline's intent to inject balance into their piece with "our side of the story." That would not have made for good television.

In the Opportunity Zone, we can all have a voice and we can perhaps arrive at a "truth" in some gray area between what the company, IBOs and critics say. This does not happen on TV.

Piet Strydom said: May 8, 2007 12:27 PM | #

Ty said: GM actually paid out over $5 million in a national class acition over the fuel tanks...

Piet says: You're missing the point. It is not about GM's problems with the fuel tanks, the point is a TV show so intent on getting the story/ boosting their ratings, that they were willing to trigger an explosion, in footage designed to convince users that it happens spontaneously during accidents.

Little bit of a difference...

As I have said elsewhere on this site, there are > 3 million people that have renewed with Alticor at least once. How representative could Dateline's program have been?

Tom Kennedy said: May 8, 2007 12:37 PM | #

Hi,

Could someone please post an explanation of "First Circle"? I heard it mentioned last year at a Free Enterprise Meeting but have no understanding of what it is, the potential, or use. What is it?

Tom

Editor's Response Posted by Anna Bryce:

Hi Tom,

First Circle is Quixtar’s comprehensive business plan to provide clear paths to profitability for every IBO – the "first circle" in his or her business. It’s not one specific project or program, but rather everything we’re doing to ensure greater, stronger, long-term growth for Independent Business Owners and the Quixtar business.

We plan to:

> Help more IBOs earn more money sooner, particularly the new IBO.

> Provide the framework and incentive for IBOs to maximize their profitability through the balanced business model.

> Support balanced businesses through a synergistic plan that focuses on five key elements: products, training, compensation, relationships, and reputation.

A “balanced business” is one that includes equitable parts sponsoring, retailing and personally using product.

I hope this clears up the confusion!

Anna

Tex said: May 8, 2007 10:55 PM | #

Robin,

Agreed, those "news documentaries" (60 Minutes, 20/20, Dateline, etc.) are well known for distortion and manipulation of the facts.

You were probably wise not to participate in the story.

However, you would have been wiser to fix the substance of the story, and the substance you have known as a corporation since at least 1983, and probably at least a couple of years prior to that.

It appears A/Q is now addressing the issue in UK, we can't wait until these actions "invade" the US.

Josh said: May 9, 2007 11:15 AM | #

One point about that article and actions happening in the UK.

Please note, they are not getting rid of the BSMs that are there. It says the BSMs will need to meet qualifications of Amway. Which is good for both parties, I believe.

Josh said: May 9, 2007 11:19 AM | #

Robin,

Thanks for the clarification.

I believe NBC as a whole has an agenda. Just recently with the dispictable act of airing the video of that murderer at VT.

By shear coinsidence, they air it right at prime time, thus boosting their ratings by a significant margin. When in fact they had the tapes hours before hand.

They are not a source for balanced reporting and in my opinion, shouldn't be trusted.

Jeffrey said: May 9, 2007 5:43 PM | #

There needs to be a permanent ban on all IBO produced BSMs worldwide. Period. Nothing less will clean up this business.

Karen said: May 9, 2007 8:54 PM | #

I think it would be a great idea for all IBO'S to be required to poll their friends once a year (or what's left of them) to see how many of them don't want to run when they see the IBO coming. Friends don't like to be thought of as business prospects.

ibofightback said: May 10, 2007 10:33 AM | #

Jeffrey, most BSM isn't produced by IBOs, it's produced by independent companies. Should NightinggaleConant be "banned"? Kioysaki? I buy BSM from both of them. FranklinCovey? Banned?

Amway cannot legally ban this stuff, it's simply not possible. Even the current UK "ban" would almost certainly be revoked by a court of law, and Amway pay damages. Of course, suing Amway would be shooting themselves in the foot, but nevertheless Amway does need a cooperation from these companies to sort through these issues.

Piet Strydom said: May 10, 2007 10:47 AM | #

To Karen: You ask them, they say yes or no, you move on. What is the problem?

Or don't you accept no for an answer?

Tex said: May 10, 2007 2:46 PM | #

Jeffrey,

Why would you want to ban tools? That would be like banning hammers at a house building site.

One simple change needs to be made, instead of charging $400 for a hammer (tools), to get help in building the house (Q), charge $20.

Then, when the house is sold and profits shared (Q profits), the money actually came mostly from the house, not the hammers.

Jeffrey said: May 10, 2007 4:19 PM | #

That's not what I said at all. I am not saying ban tools. I am saying ban tools and tool systems marketed by Diamond IBOs.

What needs to be done is this: When an IBO wants to create a tool (literature piece, DVD, CD, etc.) they need to submit it to the company. When it is approved, the company would produce it and distribute it and everyone could profit from it.

The money earned in this business needs to come from this business and not one that is run along side of it. We move products through retailing and personal use and sponsor others who move products through retailing and personal use. End of story. If someone wants to be in the training and motivational business, they should quit this business and do that to an outside audience--not a captive one. An IBO is not a retail customer, I don't care what anybody says. That makes the tool systems an illegal pyramid.

For anyone who whines and moans about there not being enough money in this business, I have a problem with that. Most of the time, the problem is that an IBO's front line is not wide enough to create profitability. Many LOS's preach depth so much that sometimes someone may be at 4200 PV and have 2 2000 PV legs that are 20 deep. Now, if that person was 15 wide, the difference in bonus kept would be incredible. As far as volume, how many customers does the average IBO have? Probably 3 or 4 and most are probably relatives. My immediate goal is to get 150 customers that purchase 50 PV a month. Guess what? 7500 PV. With a 1:3 PV/BV ratio, you'd make approximately $9000 a month from 30% markup and the 25% bonus. Guess what else? After the first few months, they are ordering the products themselves. Presto: Residual income. How much personal use do people use? I bet most IBOs don't use 50 PV a month. I'm working on a personal use order (no retail at all) and so far, the total is $300. And that's just one order. Remember, you DO get paid from your bonus on your own personal use. The K-Marts and the Meijers don't do that, no matter how good their prices are.

Tools in our business are subjective. The illustration of a hammer is not relevant. You want a nail pounded into a board, of course get a hammer. You want to get 20 wide? Which piece of literature or DVD do you buy? How about asking people qualifying questions to see if they are looking, what are they looking for, why are they looking, are they willing to do the work, what are their goals and dreams, how much effort are they willing to put forth? Then show them the plan. Show them the site. Help them with their names list. Help them identify their goals and prioritize them. Help them with their first phone calls and do their first meetings for them. Not one place in there do you need a tool. Most people just need to get off their tu-tu and STP (Show the Plan.) Instead, most people would rather listen to a standing order CD, go to an Open meeting with no guests, and buy a boatload of literature that's going to sit and get dusty, and then tell themselves that they are "doing the business." I speak from experience because I've done that.

The literature, DVDs, CD-ROMS, websites, and other information that Quixtar/Amway puts out is so incredible, why would you want to use anything else? I've looked at Amway websites from their affiliates all over the world and they are all incredible.

I think there used to be a time for IBO-produced BSMs. I think that time is past. It's on life support and I think it's time to pull the plug.

Anna Bryce said: May 10, 2007 4:51 PM | #

In response to Ty's May 2 comment regarding Quixtar's compensation ...

Quixtar's total incentives as a percentage of sales were 33% in 2006. However, this is an average figure and doesn't take into account what product categories IBOs focus on. Also, some companies include retail mark-up profits in their numbers while we only show bonus payments.

That said, we are currently evaluating many different options for improving our overall compensation as well as the distribution among various levels of IBOs.

Thanks,

Anna Bryce

Managing Editor -- Quixtar Opportunity Zone

Gene said: May 10, 2007 5:16 PM | #

Jeffrey,

Best of luck with the 7500 pv from customers... that is around what, $20,000 + per month in retail sales? having been in retail for a number of years, I can tell you from expirence, that is going to take hard work. If you are willing to put in that much effort, and willing to stick with it for as many years as it takes, I honestly do wish you the best with it, and think it will be a great example. Those of you in "retail" oriented groups seem to forget that not everyone wants to do what you do- thus the reason for the different systems, and the reason Q cannot fulfill the tools role. I dont mind servicing a few customers- 150 to 300 PV per month, great, and also not hard to create. I dont need another full time job, so the idea of duplicating an IBO doing personal use w/some volume from customers is attractive. We each do a little, and it accounts for a lot in total.

You are also correct in the idea that width is where the profitability is, however, as you said, very few people do anything other than listen to some materials, and even then, most dont do that. If you were in a system using depth building, and it has been said over and over in this business that depth is stability for your business, then even it you wanted to do nothing but retail your buns off, you would not have to do it all yourself. When you hit 25% in a depth model, and have reail on the side, you are getting a great kickback on what you have created. Depth makes sense if taken logicly.

One thing I would like to see Quixtar, and it has nothing to do with tools, as so many would like, is to reward serious IBO's- make the bonus plan pay out ONLY if you hit 100 personal PV- your own use or customers, and when they get thier facts and figures for the business, ONLY use the people who do 100 personal PV in the stats- that would make such an enormous difference in this business, because people would see that if you actualy do this, you WILL make money!

Jeffrey said: May 10, 2007 6:08 PM | #

If you want to buy products from Nightengale-Conant, Robert Kyosaki, or Zig Ziglar, you have every right to do that. That is not a BSM. It is a generic business training aid or a motivational tool. Those could help you in any business, even on your job. A BSM is a tool or function produced by an IBO in this business that is specific to this business. Your upline Diamond should not profit from your purchase of those. The exception to that is if you purchase a training or motivational book or DVD from the Barnes and Noble Partner Store and the PV is passed up the line.

Like David Lee Roth says in an old Van Halen song: I got nuthin' against self-improvement. Don't get me wrong, I plan to get some soon. :-)

Tex said: May 10, 2007 8:44 PM | #

Jeffrey,

I am okay with either IBO's or corp producing tools, but either way the prices need to come down.

The tools help IBO's with their effectiveness and credibility, you don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water, in my opinion.

This is why I think the hammer (tools) and house (Q profit) analogy is a decent one.

ibofightback said: May 11, 2007 2:16 PM | #

Jeffrey,

In most cases tools are not produced by diamonds, they are produced and sold by independent companies. Even if diamonds own these companies they are separate legal entities. To say a company with a diamond as a shareholder cannot sell to IBOs, yet companies owned by non-IBOs could, cause there's no way you could stop them - well, there'd barely be a legal toe to stand on, let alone a leg.

Or do you imagine Amway should have in it's IBO contract that IBOs cannot by BSM from anyone but Amway? Want that latest book by Brian Tracy? Sorry, you're not allowed to get it from Amazon.com - you have to buy it from Amway.

...

The current UK BSM issues is not related to BSM per se. It's arisen because (a) folk have not been focused on early profitability, something First Circle aims to address and (b) I'm convinced the DTI has gotten it's MLM education from anti-mlm, anti-amway critics on the 'net, exactly like the lawyers in California appear to have. Unfortunately, even when wrong, government departments have an awful lot of power.

Finally of course, is (c) people have and do do the wrong thing. "Critics" stories aren't made up. They are a small number compared to those involved, and they're usually just "one side of the story", but IBOs have to act professionally.

As I did in my site earlier today, I call on Amway globally to implement a compulsory, and free, course for all new IBOs which addresses Amway's rules and image building. IBOs who do not undertake the training should not be eligible to sponsor downline IBOs and simply be "wholesale shoppers"

Editor's Note: Portions of the comment have been edited for violating Ada-tudes comments policy.

ibofightback said: May 11, 2007 4:33 PM | #

Jeffrey - in our system we have received and offer the exact materials you are talking about, and whenever I have checked it has been at a better price than traditional outlets.

As it stands Amway requires these materials to be approved before IBOs can use them - a ridiculous stance really. According to Amway Europe, as an IBO I should not for example recommend Rich Dad, Poor Dad to a prospect. Where the line is drawn I have no idea - what if the prospect is a friend? Then of course I could probably say he wasn't a prospect, but then i can't get him a copy of RDPD from my "system", even though it would be cheaper for him.

Ridiculous I'm sure you'd agree, but that's some of the rules that A/Q has at the moment.

Now, you say an upline diamond shouldn't be able to profit from selling BSM. Which means you don't believe an upline should be able to profit from getting volume discounts for creating large orders of products (in this case say books)

Which would logically mean you're against the basic model of business used by Amway and all other product distribution businesses.

But even so - make that rule. My upline diamond *doesn't* profit from my BSM purchases. However a company in which he is a shareholder does. It's a separate legal entity. Do you ban IBOs from owning shares in companies that sell stuff to IBOs? Or owning shares in companies that own companies? Can an IBO not be a shareholder in Amazon, because to do so would mean if their downline purchased products from amazon as "BSM" then they might profit?

Things aren't as simple as you might think.

Tex said: May 11, 2007 4:47 PM | #

ibofb,

Trying to hide behind a tool corporation is silly.

A Diamond is not allowed to promote their tool system outside their own line of sponsorship.

The same with all the other lines of sponsorship.

Only in very rare cases do the lines of sponsorship and lines of affiliation not mean the exact same thing.

Therefore, there is no practical difference between a Diamond directly promoting tools as a personal business compared to hiding behind a corporation and doing the exact same thing.

Jeffrey never said or implied you couldn't buy tools from a third party, just that you shouldn't have to buy from the upline, but should buy instead from A/Q. Third party purchases aren't even a part of this conversation, until YOU tried to bring them into it.

How can you say the UK fiasco is not related to BSM? There has been very little detail put out exactly what it is about from ANY source.

I say when the details come out, your statement will be proven 100% false.

Josh said: May 12, 2007 10:02 PM | #

Tex said: "Jeffrey never said or implied you couldn't buy tools from a third party, just that you shouldn't have to buy from the upline...."

Josh says: Tex you are correct, and you don't have to buy from the upline...Read the Rules!!!

Kevin said: May 14, 2007 5:02 AM | #

I am so excited about all the attention that's happening to get Quixtar towards a true on-line 21st century business opportunity!! I can't wait to see the training. I love these blogs. It's unfortunate that we have to defend our business because of all the people responsible for the experiences that created the bad word of mouth and bad press. But we're still the biggest and best of our kind, so we have the power and ability to fix it. The commercials are awesome. The product endorsements are cool. Thank You so much for adjusting the price of Nutrilite Daily to make it more approachable for anyone. I would like to see more of this strategy. One of my thoughts about first circle and developing growth there is to overhaul our website. We have an incredible online portal that connects people to all kinds of products, but when you open Quixtar.com, you don't really get that. The website should sell the products first, and the business second. Easy and fast.

Jeffrey said: May 15, 2007 5:57 AM | #

I tried to comment further, but was told I was "off topic" so I guess I can't defend my opinions. I will say this, though, about the Diamond systems: what is technically correct isn't always ethically correct.

Editor's Note:
We would never discourage anyone from expressing or defending their opinions We're simply trying to keep each thread as focused as possible as a courtesy to those who read these blogs, which is why we suggested that Jeffrey resubmit his comment to 'The T Word' post, as we suggested to others who made similar comments to this post. Again, moderating blogs is more of an art than a science and we're working hard to keep comments civil, on topic and not redundant without squelching anyone's freedom of expression.

Katie Pearsall
Editor - Opportunity Zone

Jeffrey said: May 15, 2007 4:36 PM | #

Here is a random thought: I would like to see a product blog. Testimonials, people finding new uses for something, product ideas, packaging ideas, why do they have x product in that country but not this country?, etc. Since there is already a beauty one, maybe this one could be Home Care, Health Tech, Basic personal care, and nutrition. Blog name? Maybe "Moving Products" or "Product Talk" or something. So, what does everyone think about that?

Editor's Note Published by Anna Bryce:

Great idea, Jeffrey! We do have plans to roll out blogs in the next couple of months on health, cooking, weight management, etc. Ideally, they'll serve as destinations for discussions about these topic areas in general, including the products we offer in these categories.

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